Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
3,038 posts, read 2,512,784 times
Reputation: 831

Advertisements

Hopefully we can put global warming right up there with all the other hoaxes the environmentalist conjure up for money and power.

Just off the top of my head:

New Ice Age
Deforestation
Acid rain
Overpopulation
Kuwati oil fires
Nuclear Winter
Ozone layer
SSTs
DDT
Food shortages
Water shortages
Land fill shortages
SARS
Swine flu
Three Mile Island
Love Canal
Oil shortages
Killer bees from Latin America
Desertification

Of course, all these either didn't happen or were extremely isolated incidents.

But the exact same people that claimed all these things want us to believe them this time. lols.

And these are just I can think up now. I'm sure with a little research I could expand the list ad infinitum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:11 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,447,987 times
Reputation: 15179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post

Take a look again. This is an animated image to show you how bad the predictions are.



If that graph was a prediction assessment of the financial results of an investment firm, would you throw money at it?
That graph is completely misleading:

Fake skeptic draws fake picture of Global Temperature | Open Mind

The flaw is this: all the series (both projections and observations) are aligned at 1990. But observations include random year-to-year fluctuations, whereas the projections do not because the average of multiple models averages those out. Using a single-year baseline (1990) offsets all subsequent years by the fluctuation of that baseline year. Instead, the projections should be aligned to the value due to the existing trend in observations at 1990.

When that is done, the author gets (lower lines):

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:14 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,946,110 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.No View Post
The above seems to perfectly describe the left especially their prediction of the coming ice age back in the 70's that I fell for hook, line and sinker!

Attachment 108843

Wait for it, Climategate 3.0 just happened. The entire zip file of ALL of the FOIA files have finally been released with the password. Details will arrive over time as they look through them. While they won't be shocking, they will do one thing and that is to place into context everything from the prior releases (which showed evidence of collusion, unethical funding from corporate interests, etc...).

Climategate 3.0 has occurred – the password has been released | Watts Up With That?


Quote:
Subject: FOIA 2013: the password It’s time to tie up loose ends and dispel some of the speculation surrounding the Climategate affair.
Indeed, it’s singular “I” this time. After certain career developments I can no longer use the papal plural ;-)


If this email seems slightly disjointed it’s probably my linguistic background and the problem of trying to address both the wider audience (I expect this will be partially reproduced sooner or later) and the email recipients (whom I haven’t decided yet on).



The “all.7z” password is [redacted]


DO NOT PUBLISH THE PASSWORD. Quote other parts if you like.
Releasing the encrypted archive was a mere practicality. I didn’t want to keep the emails lying around.
I prepared CG1 & 2 alone. Even skimming through all 220.000 emails would have taken several more months of work in an increasingly unfavorable environment.
Dumping them all into the public domain would be the last resort. Majority of the emails are irrelevant, some of them probably sensitive and socially damaging.


To get the remaining scientifically (or otherwise) relevant emails out, I ask you to pass this on to any motivated and responsible individuals who could volunteer some time to sift through the material for eventual release.


Filtering\redacting personally sensitive emails doesn’t require special expertise.
I’m not entirely comfortable sending the password around unsolicited, but haven’t got better ideas at the moment. If you feel this makes you seemingly “complicit” in a way you don’t like, don’t take action.
I don’t expect these remaining emails to hold big surprises. Yet it’s possible that the most important pieces are among them. Nobody on the planet has held the archive in plaintext since CG2.
That’s right; no conspiracy, no paid hackers, no Big Oil. The Republicans didn’t plot this. USA politics is alien to me, neither am I from the UK. There is life outside the Anglo-American sphere.
If someone is still wondering why anyone would take these risks, or sees only a breach of privacy here, a few words…


The first glimpses I got behind the scenes did little to garner my trust in the state of climate science — on the contrary. I found myself in front of a choice that just might have a global impact.
Briefly put, when I had to balance the interests of my own safety, privacy\career of a few scientists, and the well-being of billions of people living in the coming several decades, the first two weren’t the decisive concern.


It was me or nobody, now or never. Combination of several rather improbable prerequisites just wouldn’t occur again for anyone else in the foreseeable future. The circus was about to arrive in Copenhagen. Later on it could be too late.


Most would agree that climate science has already directed where humanity puts its capability, innovation, mental and material “might”. The scale will grow ever grander in the coming decades if things go according to script. We’re dealing with $trillions and potentially drastic influence on practically everyone.


Wealth of the surrounding society tends to draw the major brushstrokes of a newborn’s future life. It makes a huge difference whether humanity uses its assets to achieve progress, or whether it strives to stop and reverse it, essentially sacrificing the less fortunate to the climate gods.
We can’t pour trillions in this massive hole-digging-and-filling-up endeavor and pretend it’s not away from something and someone else.


If the economy of a region, a country, a city, etc. deteriorates, what happens among the poorest? Does that usually improve their prospects? No, they will take the hardest hit. No amount of magical climate thinking can turn this one upside-down.


It’s easy for many of us in the western world to accept a tiny green inconvenience and then wallow in that righteous feeling, surrounded by our “clean” technology and energy that is only slightly more expensive if adequately subsidized.


Those millions and billions already struggling with malnutrition, sickness, violence, illiteracy, etc. don’t have that luxury. The price of “climate protection” with its cumulative and collateral effects is bound to destroy and debilitate in great numbers, for decades and generations.
Conversely, a “game-changer” could have a beneficial effect encompassing a similar scope.
If I had a chance to accomplish even a fraction of that, I’d have to try. I couldn’t morally afford inaction. Even if I risked everything, would never get personal compensation, and could probably never talk about it with anyone.


I took what I deemed the most defensible course of action, and would do it again (although with slight alterations — trying to publish something truthful on RealClimate was clearly too grandiose of a plan ;-).
Even if I have it all wrong and these scientists had some good reason to mislead us (instead of making a strong case with real data) I think disseminating the truth is still the safest bet by far.


Big thanks to Steve and Anthony and many others. My contribution would never have happened without your work (whether or not you agree with the views stated).
Oh, one more thing. I was surprised to learn from a “progressive” blog, corroborated by a renowned “scientist”, that the releases were part of a coordinated campaign receiving vast amounts of secret funding from shady energy industry groups.


I wasn’t aware of the arrangement but warmly welcome their decision to support my project. For that end I opened a bitcoin address: 1HHQ36qbsgGZWLPmiUjYHxQUPJ6EQXVJFS.


More seriously speaking, I accept, with gratitude, modest donations to support The (other) Cause. The address can also serve as a digital signature to ward off those identity thefts which are part of climate scientists’ repertoire of tricks these days.


Keep on the good work. I won’t be able to use this email address for long so if you reply, I can’t guarantee reading or answering. I will several batches, to anyone I can think of.
Over and out.


Mr. FOIA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:16 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,946,110 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
That graph is completely misleading:

Fake skeptic draws fake picture of Global Temperature | Open Mind

The flaw is this: all the series (both projections and observations) are aligned at 1990. But observations include random year-to-year fluctuations, whereas the projections do not because the average of multiple models averages those out. Using a single-year baseline (1990) offsets all subsequent years by the fluctuation of that baseline year. Instead, the projections should be aligned to the value due to the existing trend in observations at 1990.

When that is done, the author gets (lower lines):

Sorry Nei, you are wrong and honestly, I have no interest in arguing with you over it.

Last edited by Nomander; 03-17-2013 at 09:42 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:17 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,946,110 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Both of those are not facts but beliefs.

Those are facts. Sorry Nei.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:19 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,447,987 times
Reputation: 15179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Those are facts. Sorry Nei.
No they're not, and you're deliberately misleading people, such as that graph you posted earlier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,939,644 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
They were nowhere near their estimates.

It would be like me saying that I am predicting a roll between 5-10 and the results are a 3 or 4. It isn't just a miss, it is a sign that the models are seriously flawed.
So estimates of an upward movement is correct, and actual upward movement in tempretures has occured, but movement in tempretures for that last few years doesn't match predictions, so then all other actual movement upward does not count..? OK.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:20 AM
 
30,058 posts, read 18,652,475 times
Reputation: 20861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vergofa View Post
No, the world ISN'T getting warmer (as you may have noticed). Now we reveal the official data that's making scientists suddenly change their minds about climate doom. So will eco-funded MPs stop waging a green crusade with your money? Well... what do YOU think?

The Mail on Sunday today presents irrefutable evidence that official predictions of global climate warming have been catastrophically flawed.


The graph on this page blows apart the ‘scientific basis’ for Britain reshaping its entire economy and spending billions in taxes and subsidies in order to cut emissions of greenhouse gases. These moves have already added £100 a year to household energy bills.

Read more: The great green con no. 1: The hard proof that finally shows global warming forecasts that are costing you billions were WRONG all along | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The whole global warming scam shows the old adage that a lie will eventually be decimated by fact.


"Global Warming" was started as a tactic to-

1. decrease US industrial output
2. weaken the middle class
3. "transition" the US to alternative fuels by scare tactics

This, of course, turned out to be a disaster. Most would support intention #3. However, you achieve that by opening federal lands to gas, coal and oil exploration, tax the revenues 5%, and "earmark" those taxes for alternative fuel infrastructure. No lies- just a straight forward plan.

There will always be suckers who believe pseudo-science and will be fooled again in the future by another scam. Any "decisions" should be made on sound scientific evidence, and not "evidence" as created by politicians and journalists. Oddly, we have the same BS tactics being used for fracking now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,254 posts, read 64,332,595 times
Reputation: 73931
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcattwood View Post
I think you were looking for the "the earth may be warming, but it isn't man's fault" thread. This is the "it's not even warming" thread.
It's implied.
Otherwise, why would you even discuss it?
What can we do about the natural cycle of the earth or the effects of the sun?

Not polluting and being more efficient are, on their face, good enough goals to have without having to employ fakey fakey scare tactics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2013, 09:26 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
Reputation: 8279
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, to me, the smoking gun is the documented rise in temperatures on other planets in the solar system. Given that there are no factories on Mars, yet the ice caps on that planet have diminished, it should give pause.
Yeah that did pretty much put the question didn't it? Its up there with discovering that the sun does not rotate around the Earth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:36 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top