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Sounds like the classic "new, improved, libertarian, playbook. Decentralizing the Fed is just the tip of the Libertarian playbook. Once that was done, the libertarians would complain about the states taking away personal freedoms. Then they would decentralize the state government.
Ultimately, there would be various libertarian fifedoms controlled by a few rich individuals and a whole lot of poor serfs labeled "personally irresponsible", wandering the countryside looking for charity.
Very good post! It is sad that we are talking about some very crazy things . Thats the problem with the extreme Right, they have a lot to say about " freedom" but little to say about how any of this crap would work, even if what they want or pretend to could happen...they have NO real plan, thats why there is so much shock and hateful things coming from the Righties its a cover up for their stupidity.
Not immediately. But down the road, in 10, 20 years life has a dynamic of its own. You can't push the paste back in the tube. Most states will probably keep the union and its agreements, but 2 or 3 mad dog angry nuts may ignite the fuse. (Just see how many angry people and groups are in this country). From that moment on, nobody will be able to stop the escalation. I am not a gun advocate, but if and when we head that way, better be armed and prepared.
And there are recent examples from other places: once people coexisted peacefully in Yugoslavia, but when "freedom" kicked in...
Currently, the economies of the states are interwoven with one another, a web of interdependence developed over hundreds of years. The federal government has helped make the transactions and transport of goods between the states seamless and cohesive. By taking the federal government out of the equation, the inevitable conflicts that will arise between the states will escalate. An excellent example: water rights. What happens when Texas and Oklahoma start fighting over water?
Whether you believe in borders, or not is irrelevant. States do have borders. And when states begin developing stronger and more distinct identities (like whether a state allows abortions or not, whether a state has gun control or not, whether a state collects income tax or not, and on a host of other issues), those borders will matter. The only place where you have absolute freedom is the hermit on the deserted island scenario. As long as people live together, freedom is a balancing act. And borders play a role in that balancing act.
First of all, I believe decentralization will happen out of necessity, and it will be ugly, because we will hold onto an insolvent federal government as long as we can. The federal government can not mathematically exist in the same form, they spend too much, and it really can't be saved. China, Russia, and Brazil are working on a basket of reserve currencies to unseat the fedgov, the only way we can retain our status is straight up brute force, another world war.
Freedom is not a balancing act, and tyranny is a slippery slope. Would I like to see a world where free men could travel freely? Yes. Will it happen in my lifetime? No. But that doesn't mean that we should not make attempts to move freedom forward. It is obvious you have read few books on the enlightenment era, most of your concerns were addressed hundreds of years ago.
Just because your mind can't wrap itself around people living in a society with no coercion does not mean that humans can't figure it out. Humans are not stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhammer70
Wait. I thought the core belief that freedom and liberty are derived through property rights. Property ownership and the complete freedom to do with it you wish is a core principle of libertarianism. So what you advocate is anarchism. Lets just make it clear that we are not arguing libertarianism as with freedom comes responsibility. What you advocate is freedom without responsibility. Big difference.
Check your reading skills, I have advocated extremely little in this discussion. I have answered a few questions, but a majority of my involvement in this conversation has been asking questions of others. Do not try to label my political beliefs based on 5 or 6 posts. General political theory is not the subject matter here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78
Yeah, good luck with that fantasy. I doubt countries are just gonna disappear cause you want to wander from border to border without a passport.
Did I say they would? You asked if I would "Love to see checkpoints and border fences". I told you no, and elaborated on it a bit. I never made any claim that I could achieve eliminating borders, or that I would... you assumed that based on my answer which you read out of context.
Convenient how you misconstrue what I say, ignore the questions, and toss hyperbolic statements around.
TO EVERYONE: Make an effort to read the conversation, and read what people say, in the context that they say it... don't deflect the issue, or put words in my mouth
Try driving across the country and tell me you would love to see border patrols, checkpoints, and passport checks at each state border. Seriously, what idiot would think that it would be a good idea to be 50 counties rather than the powerhouse of the United States?
they have DUI checkpoints...Where do you moon-bats get the idea of 50 counties? we just want the states to have most of the power...and the feds only having the power given to them under article 1 section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Sounds like the classic "new, improved, libertarian, playbook. Decentralizing the Fed is just the tip of the Libertarian playbook. Once that was done, the libertarians would complain about the states taking away personal freedoms. Then they would decentralize the state government.
Ultimately, there would be various libertarian fifedoms controlled by a few rich individuals and a whole lot of poor serfs labeled "personally irresponsible", wandering the countryside looking for charity.
Very good post! It is sad that we are talking about some very crazy things . Thats the problem with the extreme Right, they have a lot to say about " freedom" but little to say about how any of this crap would work, even if what they want or pretend to could happen...they have NO real plan, thats why there is so much shock and hateful things coming from the Righties its a cover up for their stupidity.
ever notice that the left calls us stupid, or nuts? yet most if not all of their ideas crash and burn?
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