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Old 03-25-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
If that makes you feel better, maybe it makes it seem it's not that bad if the rapist doesn't get punished enough. If he gets a slap on the wrist the same way a shoplifter does, the crimes must be equivalent and the victims don't have to feel so bad because society says the crime isn't so serious. And some people posting online think it's not so bad either and it's irrational to make a big deal.
Too many people have been falsely accused...too many people who are innocent sit behind bars for things they haven't done...accused, convicted of murder and rape. DNA evidence is often ignored (look at all the cases in Texas) eye witnesses are often not reliable.
People sometimes cry "rape" for revenge or other motives
When and only when, we can unequivocally PROVE every person guilty of the crime they are accused of, should we even discuss the death penalty.
Since, that is not likely to ever happen...
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I think another thing that results from these shows is the perception that these techniques are used more often than they are. I don't believe law enforcement has the resources available to go over every crime scene with a magnifying glass and subject every piece of evidence to a microscopic and chemical analysis. There are simply too many crimes committed. For every crime that hits the TV there are a hundred more just like it around the nation.
Yep. What makes a DA's reputation if the conviction rate. Not how many of those convictions were later overturned. That sort of stuff is of course studied, but it receives a lot less attention. And the same with the cops - they want to close the case and then let the justice system figure it out. They just need to find someone who could have done it, not necessarily someone who did do it.
Amen!
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:39 AM
 
17,908 posts, read 10,344,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
Too many people have been falsely accused...too many people who are innocent sit behind bars for things they haven't done...accused, convicted of murder and rape. DNA evidence is often ignored (look at all the cases in Texas) eye witnesses are often not reliable.
People sometimes cry "rape" for revenge or other motives
When and only when, we can unequivocally PROVE every person guilty of the crime they are accused of, should we even discuss the death penalty.
Since, that is not likely to ever happen...
It won't and shouldn't happen for that reason. It's just personally some people think rape is such a heinous animalistic crime that they deserve the worst punishment. It's an opinion, not realistic, just like some people say castrate them. Of course it will never happen. This is people being disgusted and making a point that rape is more harmful than assault or other lesser crimes. Rape is many womens' worst fear, the most traumatic thing that could happen to them.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It won't and shouldn't happen for that reason. It's just personally some people think rape is such a heinous animalistic crime that they deserve the worst punishment. It's an opinion, not realistic, just like some people say castrate them. Of course it will never happen. This is people being disgusted and making a point that rape is more harmful than assault or other lesser crimes. Rape is many womens' worst fear, the most traumatic thing that could happen to them.
I'm sure it is many people's worst fear, men and women alike...mine is having gasoline thrown on me, and being set on fire.

I get irritated by the 'sheeple' who often scream "Castrate! hang them!" etc. because often do not think about their words.
Firstly, the 'offender' who is the object of such hate, has family and loved ones...so many people forget that
Secondly, we never know what kind of idiot may take such statements to heart and think they're doing eveyone a favor by "offing" those on the registry
A good case to read would be the one of Patrick Drum who used the registry to kill sex offenders. if you read up on Gary Blanton, one of the victims...you would find that his "crime" happened in high-school when he had sex with his close to same age girl-friend...her mother caught wind and pressed charges saying "he took advantage of her disabled daughter" The girl was deaf.
Gary left behind a wife and 2 kids.

Back to the subject of rape vs. murder
Murder takes the person out of this world, it removes all potential for that person
That's why I see it as worse.
With the right support,and therapy, the rape victim has a chance to have a good, happy productive life full of love.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:09 PM
 
17,908 posts, read 10,344,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
With the right support,and therapy, the rape victim has a chance to have a good, happy productive life full of love.
Yes, victims do not have to have their lives ruined, but some people can't get there. It seems men have a very difficult time being victims of sex crimes. There is a guy going after his perp from thirty years ago. The victim called the perp, an old man now, got him to admit he did it and taped the conversation. Thirty years and this guy is still in this much pain and distress that he can't let it go and wants justice.

Women have actually been turned off of men and sex altogether after being raped and can't have relationships or can have them with women only. These kinds of things don't happen from being mugged or punched or some less violating crime. Those things are traumatizing and people do have fear and PtSD afterwards, but it's not the same.

This woman at the convenience store that was robbed at gunpoint, brought to the back room, bound and gagged, said her biggest fear was being raped, not of the gun or being shot. Go figure.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,975 posts, read 25,592,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
There are guys whose lives are ruined by sexual abuse by abusers. Priests has nothing to do with it. Some abusers become priests. Priests aren't abusers. The actual rate of abuse by priests is exactly the same as the rate of abuse in the general population. It just makes for a juicier story for the media when the abuser is a priest.
Not to mention feeds into the hysteria that someone's waiting around every corner to snatch up a kid for sex. Since priests have been found guilty, the very people who're supposed to be the absolute most trustworthy among us that means everyone needs to be afraid! We must create new laws, new government agencies and build new prisons to lock up anyone accused. Not only that we have to fund programs in school to scare the snot out of all the kids, teach 'em to report and run at the first sign anyone is even looking their way in a manner "they" think is strange.
We must also scare all adults so even if poor Nancy or Johnny is lost or hurt no sane adult would DARE lift a finger or stick around for fear of being accused of something.
And for the older kids? Well we must teach them that accusing an adult is a great tool to get even or to threaten someone with because as you know kids never,ever lie.

It's been brought up that rape is the absolute most horrible thing and the perp should face the stiffest penalty available. I don't argue that depending on which definition of rape we're talking about. In the law there's several types of rape, is it all of them or just one?
Specifics and unintended consequences are what's wrong with this whole argument for this huge hysterical crackdown that's been going on, the biggest problem is with people who say "so what, some people get caught up in this that shouldn't be" or "well they ARE guilty of something" who cares? To that I say what if it's you or your kid that's accused of rape (statutory) or indecent exposure (peeing on the side of the road) etc. and are now forced to live the life of a lifetime offender?
Then there's the people who wouldn't want anyone on that list to live within driving distance of them but are just fine with the doper, insane person or murderer living next door. How does that make sense?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,975 posts, read 25,592,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Yes, victims do not have to have their lives ruined, but some people can't get there. It seems men have a very difficult time being victims of sex crimes. There is a guy going after his perp from thirty years ago. The victim called the perp, an old man now, got him to admit he did it and taped the conversation. Thirty years and this guy is still in this much pain and distress that he can't let it go and wants justice.

Women have actually been turned off of men and sex altogether after being raped and can't have relationships or can have them with women only. These kinds of things don't happen from being mugged or punched or some less violating crime. Those things are traumatizing and people do have fear and PtSD afterwards, but it's not the same.

This woman at the convenience store that was robbed at gunpoint, brought to the back room, bound and gagged, said her biggest fear was being raped, not of the gun or being shot. Go figure.
And some people can't get over that their parents belittled them while growing up or that they didn't catch the pass to win that last football game in school. Thing is they're not told over and over again that they'll remain a victim forever unlike with sex assault victims who seem to be encouraged to be and remain "broken" probably paying some therapist for the rest of their lives.
As for the woman that was robbed, that attitude in and of itself should give pause. Dead,disabled but not raped? Sad.
That's a fine example of the complete hysteria and stigma that's been/being whipped up.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:41 PM
 
17,908 posts, read 10,344,817 times
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Originally Posted by jimj View Post
And some people can't get over that their parents belittled them while growing up or that they didn't catch the pass to win that last football game in school. Thing is they're not told over and over again that they'll remain a victim forever unlike with sex assault victims who seem to be encouraged to be and remain "broken" probably paying some therapist for the rest of their lives.
As for the woman that was robbed, that attitude in and of itself should give pause. Dead,disabled but not raped? Sad.
That's a fine example of the complete hysteria and stigma that's been/being whipped up.
JimJ who I take it is a guy, the reason women worry about rape more than something else horrible like murder or dismemberment or being set on fire, is because rape is more likely to happen. And it is that traumatic. People like you minimize it so it makes it easier for a rapist to feel it's not so bad.

You compared rape to bad parenting, so you lack empathy for violent crime victims.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:41 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,243,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faeryedark View Post
I get irritated by the 'sheeple' who often scream "Castrate! hang them!" etc. because often do not think about their words.
Firstly, the 'offender' who is the object of such hate, has family and loved ones...so many people forget that
Secondly, we never know what kind of idiot may take such statements to heart and think they're doing eveyone a favor by "offing" those on the registry
Yep - this is what happens when people take the attitude you were talking about in your post:

Community of the Wrongly Accused: The terrible consequences of a false rape claim: sometimes, beatings and even death

PA - Six guilty in beating of man falsely accused of rape, after woman (Felisha Hardison) lied and said someone raped her | Sex Offender Issues

Man falsely accused of rape and beaten by Phila. cops files assault and battery claim against officers | Pennsylvania Record

Man beaten to death likely falsely accused

Teen Falsely Accused of Rape Beaten to Death by Gang of Four – Crime Library

Anniston Star - Police Man was falsely accused of assault against two women

False Rape Society: Woman's rape lie provokes husband to beat falsely accused man to death

Man suing city, police for false accusation of rape

Woman Admits That She Falsely Accused Convicted High School Student of Rape After He Serves His Time In Jail . . . Woman Keeps $1.5 Million Award As Rape Victim | JONATHAN TURLEY

Another Insult to Man Falsely Accused of Rape | MND: Your Daily Dose of Counter-Theory

Brian Banks: Player falsely accused of rape has NFL auditions with four teams | Mail Online

Businessman suffers brain damage after assault over false rape claim - News - Scotsman.com

I've already made a long post on the victim side of things - about how taking rape seriously goes overboard to the point where the victims have a much harder time recovering from it. And this the other side of it, where people are so fired up over it that it doesn't matter if you're guilty or not. Just the accusation is enough to make people ready to permanently injure the accused.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg PA
1,738 posts, read 1,975,460 times
Reputation: 1482
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Yes, victims do not have to have their lives ruined, but some people can't get there. It seems men have a very difficult time being victims of sex crimes. There is a guy going after his perp from thirty years ago. The victim called the perp, an old man now, got him to admit he did it and taped the conversation. Thirty years and this guy is still in this much pain and distress that he can't let it go and wants justice.

Women have actually been turned off of men and sex altogether after being raped and can't have relationships or can have them with women only. These kinds of things don't happen from being mugged or punched or some less violating crime. Those things are traumatizing and people do have fear and PtSD afterwards, but it's not the same.

This woman at the convenience store that was robbed at gunpoint, brought to the back room, bound and gagged, said her biggest fear was being raped, not of the gun or being shot. Go figure.
We all have our own views and experiences and I respect that. My experiences and views aren't the same as others...that's why we should have a detached fair justice system.

I was molested by a teen babysitter as a kid. I have had my own issues with that, much of which I'd dealt with, and I was able to forgive the guy.
Then a few years ago, a close loved one was falsely accused of molestation. It's a convoluted mess, involving a family "Hatfield's/McCoy's" type of feud. I'll just say, I know the accused is innocent...and to top it of the accuser after all was said and done, admitted she'd lied. after he'd plead to a indecent assault charge.
Here's the thing: I've lost my trust in the system...that the "truth will out" I have fear for my loved one and his family that they will suffer from the consequences of the registry, fear for their safety, and mine, feel helpless to protect them from any repercussions,
My PTSD has kicked in, I feel vulnerable, am paranoid that it's happened once, are they now targets again? every knock at the door makes me jump. Will my family EVER have a normal life? How could someone take incidents that happened to me as a kid, and use that as weapon against those I love?

TBH, I would much rather endure the abuse all over again, than have my loved ones have to deal with the effects of a false accusation.
At least in my situation of abuse, there was some semblence of control. As I got older, I could generally get out of being around my abuser, or have friends around,and eventually it stopped.

There's no way to control an out of control justice system that paints every "offender' with same broad brush...except to try and fight it
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