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Old 03-25-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
6,888 posts, read 2,432,431 times
Reputation: 3350
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Not true at all, when you consider ObamaCare taxes that are about to hit every American in a huge way. These represent the largest tax increases on Americans in our history.
You guy keep making that claim but, watch, it won't add up in real life.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,898 posts, read 5,639,555 times
Reputation: 3916
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
You're playing semantics.
I am doing no such thing. I am exposing semantics.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:09 PM
 
Location: On the Group W bench
5,384 posts, read 1,220,099 times
Reputation: 2032
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Please stop trying to confuse the Really Right with facts about religion, welfare and economics. They resent their world view being challenged. Among other things they resent people pointing out that our Constitution was written to prevent any religious domination of our government.

They are also confused when people want to restore Capitalistic market economics to the energy, agriculture and arms businesses by ending government subsidy and controls. They resent the presence of more than a few gay Christians that sincerely preach the gospel of Jesus Christ without getting stuck on the literalness of the Bible (which version BTW?).

Above all these most Manly Republican Christians fear that they will lose control of the female half the population if they cannot keep them involuntarily pregnant or impoverished with the demands of child care. If these manly men cannot control women some of them would never get laid without a credit card. If they had to pay for raising the children they created they fear they would go broke. Those are legitimate fears that terrify the irresponsible manly men that dominate the RWNJ Republicans.

They are also terrified that the illegal immigrants they import for nearly free labor will obtain citizenship and revise the law to make the exploiters pay higher wages to these near slaves. Paying people for the work they do is anathema to these industrial slavers. Not just satisfied with agricultural labor they use the law (H1B visas) to keep professional wages and job opportunities low for all but their children. Yet these incredibly selfish men dare to call themselves Christian.
Consider yourself repped.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,631 posts, read 2,424,242 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
In fact, recent studies have found that support for "gay marriage" is represented by only a tiny minority of Americans (less than 2%, I think was the figure I read recently). .
Your numbers are a little off:

A March Washington Post poll shows that 58% of Americans support same-sex marriage while 36% oppose. The poll indicates that 52% of GOP-leaning independents under 50 years old now support gay marriage.
A March Quinnipiac University poll found 47% support and 43% opposed among all voters.
A March Fox News poll indicated that 46% of Americans both support and oppose same-sex marriage.
A February 6-10 CBS News Poll shows that 54% of Americans support same-sex marriage while 46% oppose.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
12,240 posts, read 5,466,522 times
Reputation: 5432
Lightbulb Why the Republican Party has lost mainstream America

As a former longtime Republican, I can shed some light on this.

The old GOP stood for things many Americans strongly supported:

minimal government intrusion

nonintervention in foreign affairs

reasonable fiscal policy

The current GOP has moved away from these and towards positions that are increasingly unpopular:

maximal government intrusion into the most private and personal individual situations

perpetual war

more money for millionaires and less for everyone else

So, tell me again, GOP. Tell me about how your current message doesn't need to change, just the tone of delivering that message needs a little refinement.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
2,326 posts, read 1,238,309 times
Reputation: 1178
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
American culture has changed. A lot of people accuse Republicans of wanting a theocracy or wanting to enforce religion on the populace. I understand why its perceived that way but that is not the truth. American culture has moved away from Christian values. 30 years ago, even if one wasn't a Christian, many of the social values they held were still comparable with Christianity. Most people were against gay marriage, even the non-religious. Today, mainstream American culture and Christianity are at complete odds. Republicans insist on clinging to the Christian culture of the American past while mainstream America, especially the younger generation, has moved on into the post-Christian era. The Republican party has refused to embrace this new post-Christian reality. Its understandable due to the demographics of the GOP being mostly old white men who grew up in a time when Christian values were still American values. I don't believe the Republicans will have a chance with young people or minorities until they embrace the new America. In a democracy, our leadership is a reflection of the people. Republicans can't expect a strong champion of Christian values to win in a post-Christian nation.
Some things to keep in perspective. While Obama has won the last two elections, he followed a republican who won the two prior elections. And while he clearly beat Romney, Obama hardly won in a landslide despite all of the built in advantages an incumbant has had.

In 2010, republicans won over 60 seats, a landslide of historical proportions. They also did extremely well in the state races. 2014 will be an interesting test, but democrats have very liitle chance of winning back control of the house and could lose the senate.

Republicans certainly have some issues nationally, and country's changing demographics and values are challenges, but don't forget democrats have one huge problem. Their policies don't work and in fact lead to economic ruin.

Last edited by MUTGR; 03-25-2013 at 03:30 PM..
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
6,988 posts, read 1,825,241 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
As a former longtime Republican, I can shed some light on this.

The old GOP stood for things many Americans strongly supported:

minimal government intrusion

nonintervention in foreign affairs

reasonable fiscal policy

The current GOP has moved away from these and towards positions that are increasingly unpopular:

maximal government intrusion into the most private and personal individual situations

perpetual war

more money for millionaires and less for everyone else

So, tell me again, GOP. Tell me about how your current message doesn't need to change, just the tone of delivering that message needs a little refinement.
I'm aslo a former Republican, but I'd never have the audacity to blame them alone for "maximal government intrusion into the most private and personal individual situations" as the DNC has been on their own control binge. NDAA and AHCA just to name two.

Can you hoestly say that Obama's fiscal policy has been reasonable?

more money for millionaires and less for everyone else <?>

Billionaires are wealthier since Obama and the Dems took over. Millionaires have shrunk. The middle class is shrinking. The poor are poorer, and good jobs have been replaced with low paying jobs, food stamp usage had increased 60%...etc.

perpetual war <?> If memory serves me correctly we were attacked first. Afghanistan was righteous, Iraq wasn't. In fact the Iraq war was what pushed me to become a Libertarian. But, let's be honest here; the majority of Democrats voted to go to war. Obama has killed over 5000 people as "acceptable collateral damage" with drones.

The first part of your post was great...until you went into your liberal spin of the facts. How long were you a Republican?
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
12,240 posts, read 5,466,522 times
Reputation: 5432
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
How long were you a Republican?
I voted GOP from Nixon to Bush the younger (2000 only). I voted Libertarian in 2004. I voted for Obama both times.

You?
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:32 PM
 
40,871 posts, read 42,143,696 times
Reputation: 12248
One only has to look at the 60 and since to that culture really doesn't change that much its more fads.Biden is right when he says politics is a pendulum that is always changing. Its also said that all politcs is local and when you look at local and state houses there defintiely is a iaway from income redistribtuion because its only resulted in massive debt and liabilties since started in the miod 60s'Republican have made huge gains in both areas.People thonught that i the 60's and sure enough Reagan then came was elected.Te 20's thur 30'where much liike the 60's but reality of the great depressio and WWII changed that. I woul;d bet both US and eve european are goig to see massive changes because of thius recessions effects.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:56 PM
 
Location: FL
7,064 posts, read 2,878,022 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Only liberals accuse the Republicans of wanting a theocracy, which is ridiculous on it's face! Conservatives believe in the Constitution. The Constitutional protection of freedom of religion would preclude any such notion (if any Republicans had such in the first place).

You might be surprised to learn that Chrisitian Fundamentalism (which means the belief in the inerrancy of scripture) is the fastest growing religion in the world (not Islam, as some believe).

American culture is not changing to the extent that Americans are abandoning Christian values. That is pure hogwash, and today the vast majority of Americans do not support "gay marriage." In fact, recent studies have found that support for "gay marriage" is represented by only a tiny minority of Americans (less than 2%, I think was the figure I read recently). This hardly represents a major cultural shift.

There is no "new America" except perhaps in your mind.

We are not a democracy. We are a Republic. Our laws are not predicated on majority views. They are based on time tested principles of law that have their foundation in Biblical principle and the idea that "all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights."

We don't legalize things based simply on the wishes of a group of people.

Your views are what are out of the mainstream, not those of Republicans.
Strong Support for Gay Marriage Now Exceeds Strong Opposition - ABC News
Shift In Gay Marriage Support Mirrors A Changing America : NPR
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