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Old 04-05-2013, 05:08 PM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,505,932 times
Reputation: 2614

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
That's the problem with the religious. Because religious ideas are static, that is, they don't change from the way they were written down by whomever wrote them down, they feel that science is "wrong" because it is constantly tested, constantly challenged, constantly re-assessed, although that is how science arrives at answers, by constantly questioning itself.

Religion is never tested (of course, it would pass no tests of any sort). The way the bearded men wrote it down is the way the religious believe it, and that's all. The religious lend themselves to all kinds of denials of science, in part because they feel that if anything is tested, has to be tested, and has to be re-assessed it's wrong, and religion is right because it's never tested.

And as for the right wingers financing the denial of global warming, they have a profit stake in it, that's all. Some of them understand that global warming is a reality, but don't care because for them profit comes above all things, no matter how dire the effects of what they're doing to get those profits might be.

/Pats you on the head.

uh huh good little person!

That's so good... whose a good little person! You are!

Buh bye little person! /rubs your ears

Buh Bye!
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:45 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,080 posts, read 50,114,048 times
Reputation: 15119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Can they establish their speculations through the scientific method. That is, can they verify, validate and replicate their speculations? What do you think?
There are no experiments in astronomy. An astronomer can test a theory by comparing it to how well it fits observations. How well it is verified or validiated is subjective and argueable.

You said previously:

All real science is experiment. Since astronomy has no experiments, by your definition it is not real science.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:23 PM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,505,932 times
Reputation: 2614
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
There are no experiments in astronomy. An astronomer can test a theory by comparing it to how well it fits observations. How well it is verified or validiated is subjective and argueable.

You said previously:

All real science is experiment. Since astronomy has no experiments, by your definition it is not real science.

bingo.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:29 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 7,749,368 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
bingo.
Thank goodness your opinion has no bearing on what actually constitutes "science". And astronomy is certainly science.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:55 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,080 posts, read 50,114,048 times
Reputation: 15119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
bingo.
So I should now believe astronomy is not science?
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:31 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,505,932 times
Reputation: 2614
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
So I should now believe astronomy is not science?

Again.

If it does not follow the scientific method in establishing validity, then it is not science. It may use elements of scientific process, but it is not "real" science if it establishes conclusions without such verification.



Don't mistake that to mean that such evaluation is meaningless, just that it is not "science", it is pseudoscience as it does not establish validity. It does not verify its position. While guessing is a very important aspect in science, after all a guess is the basic foundation to which the process begins and develops, a guess is not a valid means of establishing something.

If you can not verify, validate, and replicate a given supposition, then it is still a suppositions and no matter how many people "agree" that it is a sound one, it does not make it such.

More generally, science is not horse shoes and hand grenades where "close enough" is considered "good enough".

Last edited by Nomander; 04-06-2013 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:38 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,505,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Thank goodness your opinion has no bearing on what actually constitutes "science". And astronomy is certainly science.

Actually, my comments are not new. In fact, there is a clear division in the fields of science concerning this. There are those who have to properly validate their work and those who do not. Theoretical physics for instance does not validate its findings. That is not to say that they do not apply as much of scientific process as they can, but until they can experiment and test their beliefs, it is simply a guess, one that may show strong internal logical consistences, but it is not validated to its position.

Why do you think the CERN experiment where they thought they found faster than the speed of light particles was so important? It was an actual test to verify and validate their suppositions. Without such empirical testing, there is no means to evaluate if a given hypothesis is valid.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:36 PM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,505,932 times
Reputation: 2614
Here is another interesting read concerning the study of climate change and... well... why the issue of its conclusions are a problem.

Freeman Dyson speaks out about climate science, and fudge

Quote:
Then in the late 1970s, he got involved with early research on climate change at the Institute for Energy Analysis in Oak Ridge, Tenn.

That research, which involved scientists from many disciplines, was based on experimentation. The scientists studied such questions as how atmospheric carbon dioxide interacts with plant life and the role of clouds in warming.

But that approach lost out to the computer-modeling approach favored by climate scientists. And that approach was flawed from the beginning, Dyson said.

“I just think they don’t understand the climate,” he said of climatologists. “Their computer models are full of fudge factors.”
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:15 PM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 687,381 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomander View Post
"arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded." /shrug
I must be warped because that was dam funny!!
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:53 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,423,855 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
/Pats you on the head.

uh huh good little person!

That's so good... whose a good little person! You are!

Buh bye little person! /rubs your ears

Buh Bye!
LOL! And off he goes into the distance, kissing his Bible and saying, "I love you, Jesus, you are the REAL weatherman!" hahahaha!
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