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Old 04-08-2013, 03:40 PM
 
27,310 posts, read 15,257,589 times
Reputation: 12082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
Cities have more of everything. American Sprawl has very little available (except the proverbial Walmart nightmare, and the bazillion drive-through fast food restaurants). What there is available in American Sprawls, always has to be driven to, and that takes time. It requires a huge amount of gas, and car bills to live in American Sprawl, not to mention that it's a wasteland of previously nice land turned into an eyesore of culturally-void, boxy development, roads, and fertilizer-dependent grass.
And I will drive whatever I please as often as I please how I please. Its called freedom. A principle that seems to evade you.

I will never buy an electric car as they are less green to produce than a standard gasoline car. And won't last as long.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,203,472 times
Reputation: 8884
Ha. All those sites I gave concerning scientists who verify that we are either causing or heavily contributing to climate change - is nobody to refute them?

No, it is not just democrats who support these facts. Christie Whitman, a republican, wrote many reports substantiating these claims. Unfortunately, it was under the BushW administration. His people redacted her information and substituted erroneous data claiming the opposite and then sent the information out with her signature on it. She quit as head of the EPA because of this.

So, the duplicity all seems one sided. I find it shocking that there are those who will jeopardize the planet and all on it for their own profits, because this is what the issue comes down to.

Did you know that there are even shills hired by industry to keep track of posting on forums like this? They have folders full of information to knock down any opposition to their company's stance.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:53 PM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,338 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Ha. All those sites I gave concerning scientists who verify that we are either causing or heavily contributing to climate change - is nobody to refute them?

No, it is not just democrats who support these facts. Christie Whitman, a republican, wrote many reports substantiating these claims. Unfortunately, it was under the BushW administration. His people redacted her information and substituted erroneous data claiming the opposite and then sent the information out with her signature on it. She quit as head of the EPA because of this.

So, the duplicity all seems one sided. I find it shocking that there are those who will jeopardize the planet and all on it for their own profits, because this is what the issue comes down to.

Did you know that there are even shills hired by industry to keep track of posting on forums like this? They have folders full of information to knock down any opposition to their company's stance.

You mean the ones that cite the IPCC AR 4 from 2007?
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:37 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 7,724,488 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Actually, my comments are not new. In fact, there is a clear division in the fields of science concerning this. There are those who have to properly validate their work and those who do not. Theoretical physics for instance does not validate its findings. That is not to say that they do not apply as much of scientific process as they can, but until they can experiment and test their beliefs, it is simply a guess, one that may show strong internal logical consistences, but it is not validated to its position.
We've debated this issue many times, and we just differ on what validate means. I still contend your definition reflects your own bias, probably relating to your age and political leanings. I found it amusing what evidence you present regarding climate change, while dismissing that which doesn't "validate" your own position.

Quote:
Why do you think the CERN experiment where they thought they found faster than the speed of light particles was so important? It was an actual test to verify and validate their suppositions. Without such empirical testing, there is no means to evaluate if a given hypothesis is valid.
Yet, we haven't waited for CERN to validate that position at all. A lot of GPS depended on this "theoretical notion" of what the speed of light was but that didn't stop the commercialization of it and many related concepts.

Let's be honest here, you pick and choose what "science" to follow.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:44 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 7,724,488 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Any influence by man on Global Warming, has no factual backing whatsoever.

In truth, climates frequently change.

Sometimes the climate gets warmer.

And sometimes it gets colder.

That's been going on for as long as the planet has been orbiting the Sun. Or, as long as it's had a climate, at least.

And man has never had the slightest influence on it.

Even the leftist loons who scream about how we have to use government to change everything, go back to the stone age, etc., to prevent some unknown catastrophe, have never been able to come up with even ONE study or example that backs up their claims.

What's funny is that, when they do name some study, it invariably turns out to be nothing but a bunch of long-winded claims which, finally, refer to some other "study" for proof. And what is in that other "study"? You guessed it - more long-winded claims, and eventually a reference to yet another study. And you can guess what is in that one, too.

The leftist global-whatever loons have been insisting on impending doom, and the urgent need to give government massive powers to change every bit of our lives to "avoid" that doom, for at least 40 years by my count. Literally billions of dollars have changed hands - usually into their hands - all over the world. And they still haven't come up with one shred of proof that man has had the least bit of influence on the climate changes that happen regularly around us. Nor is there any proof that man can do anything to change it.

***40 YEARS*** of screaming, caterwauling, and doomsaying. All without the slightest proof. Just references to references to references, ad infinitum. And demands that they be given complete power over all of us, to change what they cannot change.

Is this a record?

(Probably not. Leftist loons have been with us a LONG time. )
Careful our resident conservative "scientists" concur that AGW is empirically a fact. Would like me to quote you Nomander and Ferd?
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:08 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,338 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
We've debated this issue many times, and we just differ on what validate means. I still contend your definition reflects your own bias, probably relating to your age and political leanings. I found it amusing what evidence you present regarding climate change, while dismissing that which doesn't "validate" your own position.
My definition? Validation is a process of science. It isn't up for debate as to what validate means. It isn't a subjective term. As for "validate my position", the issue here is not that I "validate" mine, but that you validate yours. It only takes one fact to invalidate your hypothesis. You really have no clue about scientific process do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Yet, we haven't waited for CERN to validate that position at all. A lot of GPS depended on this "theoretical notion" of what the speed of light was but that didn't stop the commercialization of it and many related concepts.
Actually, CERN's experiment failed due to the fact that their tests contained errors in the measurement. If it would have been successful as they initially thought, it would have shown a flaw in the theory of relativity as nothing is supposed to move faster than the speed of light.

As for GPS. Explain your position.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Let's be honest here, you pick and choose what "science" to follow.
You are fishing to try and retain some appearance of legitimacy. You have failed.

Last edited by Nomander; 04-09-2013 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:11 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,338 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Careful our resident conservative "scientists" concur that AGW is empirically a fact. Would like me to quote you Nomander and Ferd?

Ignore him Little-Acorn as "context" is a word they don't teach the children today. It gets in the way of establishing rainbows and unicorns as reality.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:30 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,400,150 times
Reputation: 2903
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
And I will drive whatever I please as often as I please how I please. Its called freedom. A principle that seems to evade you.

I will never buy an electric car as they are less green to produce than a standard gasoline car. And won't last as long.
You can drive wherever your behind takes you, but the fact is that American Sprawl sucks, is ugly as sh_t, it's expensive to live in because of the prohibitive distances, leads to a very low quality of life, and leads to horrifically bad health.

If there were ugly laws in the world, the U.S. and its sprawl would be in jail permanently.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 1,081,045 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
You can drive wherever your behind takes you, but the fact is that American Sprawl sucks, is ugly as sh_t, it's expensive to live in because of the prohibitive distances, leads to a very low quality of life, and leads to horrifically bad health.

If there were ugly laws in the world, the U.S. and its sprawl would be in jail permanently.
Your opinion. In my neck of the sprawling woods, the cost of living is cheap, including gas. The distances aren't vast. My quality of life is excellent as is my health.

Now, does this apply to everyone in my corner of the sprawl? Probably not, but be not too hasty to make sweeping generalizations. It makes one look foolish.

And as for the posters that like to tie in political leanings with climate change opinions, I must say that is also very innapropriate. I actually teach science - have been for 2 decades. My undergraduate degrees and part of one of my graduate degrees are in science.
  • I have no issues with teaching evolution, as it was part of my Biology degree and graduate work. Teaching evolution would make me a liberal to many of you.
  • I have a CCW, which would make me a neo-con to many of you.
I'm neutral on many issues that make a person lean left or right. I'm a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal.

So the placing of those with pro or con beliefs in political pigeonholes is quite absurd. Yes, it has become a political controversy, but the science is still science. I'm fully aware of the scientific method and all it entails. And I'm still a skeptic on CAGW.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,203,472 times
Reputation: 8884
Governments the world over are responding in using alternate fuels. This just came in my email today:

London's cooking waste to fuel power station | Environment | guardian.co.uk
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