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Old 04-13-2013, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,204,377 times
Reputation: 8884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Don't sugar coat it Nomander... Tell us what you REALLY think.


Another great post!
Nomander acts so much like a shill for the industry. I'll bet the person receives a nice, fat, paycheck from them.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,204,377 times
Reputation: 8884
The Next Generation Science Standards, which were released Tuesday after development by 26 states and several national scientific organizations, recommend that educators for the first time identify climate change as a core concept and stress the relationship between that change and human activity.

New science standards have America

Now the bulk of the educational community will be on program. Yes, they and most of the world are in a big conspiracy of some sort and only the polluters are being truthful - lol.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:58 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,782 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Nomander acts so much like a shill for the industry. I'll bet the person receives a nice, fat, paycheck from them.

Or maybe you are? In fact, one has to consider why one would bring up such unless they themselves are on the take and think it a good political tactic to project in order to keep others of the track of their motives.

Quick, post another link about CAGW to hide it. Nobody will know, carry on.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 14,912,442 times
Reputation: 11259
Let us assume, for purpose of debate, that man-made global warming is real. How are you going to do anything about it without getting China, India and the rest of the developing world to take part in any preventative actions?

This is one of the few areas where GW Bush was right, even a blind frog occassionally catches a fly, any agreement must include China and India. Otherwise you accelerate the flow of Western jobs to those nations.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:04 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,782 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
The Next Generation Science Standards, which were released Tuesday after development by 26 states and several national scientific organizations, recommend that educators for the first time identify climate change as a core concept and stress the relationship between that change and human activity.

New science standards have America

Now the bulk of the educational community will be on program. Yes, they and most of the world are in a big conspiracy of some sort and only the polluters are being truthful - lol.
Yes yes... and those that question, there is always a red button right?



Just think, you can indoctrinate a whole generation!

If science gets in the way, just redefine it to your liking. Just think, in years to come we can have unicorns, fairies, and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow all "validated" through the new form of Science™.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:09 AM
 
13,056 posts, read 12,478,782 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Let us assume, for purpose of debate, that man-made global warming is real. How are you going to do anything about it without getting China, India and the rest of the developing world to take part in any preventative actions?

This is one of the few areas where GW Bush was right, even a blind frog occassionally catches a fly, any agreement must include China and India. Otherwise you accelerate the flow of Western jobs to those nations.

Good question.

One has to ask, what purpose does all of these solutions they have implemented or purposed serve?

Even the EPA admits that their regulations will not serve any practical result. What benefit do they gain by destroying a nation while ignoring the fact that other countries are surpassing us greatly in such?

Just like the "evidence" of CAGW, the solutions also lack any practical meaning, but hey... as long as we feel good about ourselves, that is all that matters right?

The more illogical and impractical steps they take to such, the more reasonable the conspiracy theories become concerning these groups. The environment is not the goal... as some say... "Follow the money".

Here is something funny as well. Remember how if we did not sign on to the Kyoto Protocol, we were doomed?

Interesting:

USA meets Kyoto protocol goal – without ever embracing it



Funny, we didn't sign on... but look! we met the conditions. Could be the downturn in the economy that caused it? Wait... I have an idea... lets destroy the US economy to "save the planet".

Far fetched? Maybe... Maybe not.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,204,377 times
Reputation: 8884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Or maybe you are? In fact, one has to consider why one would bring up such unless they themselves are on the take and think it a good political tactic to project in order to keep others of the track of their motives.

Quick, post another link about CAGW to hide it. Nobody will know, carry on.
Well, it's obvious from my posts that I am just 'Joe Public'. It is easy to see that I don't have a file cabinet full of indexed folders of propaganda and clippings. It is obvious that I merely read the daily news headlines and post from there, as I am posting articles FROM headlines of commonly used sites and wide circulation newspapers. Nothing esoteric in my posts.

Last edited by goldengrain; 04-13-2013 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 18,204,377 times
Reputation: 8884
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Let us assume, for purpose of debate, that man-made global warming is real. How are you going to do anything about it without getting China, India and the rest of the developing world to take part in any preventative actions?

This is one of the few areas where GW Bush was right, even a blind frog occassionally catches a fly, any agreement must include China and India. Otherwise you accelerate the flow of Western jobs to those nations.
I cannot speak for India, but I did post about China earlier. They are actually manufacturing and selling around the world. We should be the leader of new technology. Our ancient out dated energy bureaucracies are determining what we do in this area rather than a vision of our future which includes creating new jobs. What Obama has spent on new energy development amounts to cents on a dollar. We really must stop getting involved in overseas wars and develop our infrastructure and educational system to produce more jobs and a more educated population to fill them.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 14,912,442 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I cannot speak for India, but I did post about China earlier. They are actually manufacturing and selling around the world. We should be the leader of new technology. Our ancient out dated energy bureaucracies are determining what we do in this area rather than a vision of our future which includes creating new jobs. What Obama has spent on new energy development amounts to cents on a dollar.

Image Detail for - Newsagency reports says those who did venture out wore facemasks for ...


China will sell anything to anyone. They will not do anything that will curb their economy. Pretty much all the proposals in the West to reduce emissions will result in more jobs exported to nations where emissions will not be controlled.

I don't really believe there is much advantage to being the "leader" in new technologies. Maybe we should do what other nations do and simply copy the work of others. Don't see how money losing ventures benefit a nation.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
12,781 posts, read 6,633,491 times
Reputation: 4021
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I cannot speak for India, but I did post about China earlier. They are actually manufacturing and selling around the world. We should be the leader of new technology. Our ancient out dated energy bureaucracies are determining what we do in this area rather than a vision of our future which includes creating new jobs. What Obama has spent on new energy development amounts to cents on a dollar. We really must stop getting involved in overseas wars and develop our infrastructure and educational system to produce more jobs and a more educated population to fill them.

I'm not a big fan of this discussion of "new jobs". There is no arguing that creating a market for alternative energy would create new jobs in an absolute sense. But it would also kill many jobs that already exist. Thus, there is no net increase in the number of jobs, just a shift in the types of jobs available.

The question isn't really about whether we can create a sort of false market for alternative energy by heavily subsidizing it. We could create a false market for practically anything if we heavily subsidized it.

The question is really about whether or not alternative energy technology would benefit us overall.

Basically, the only way it would be economically beneficial to subsidize alternative energy technology, is if there was some huge market for alternative energy that the United States could sell into. But the truth is, that market simply doesn't exist. In fact, the largest market for alternative energy in the world, is China. Which we simply aren't going to be beating out on the open market(their labor rates are just too low). The second largest market is the United States. Which it doesn't do us much good to subsidize goods that we buy for ourselves. I mean, why take money from tax-payers, to give to businesses, to make goods for tax-payers to buy. It doesn't produce beneficial results, because one way or another, we still have to pay for it.


The reality is that, if you subsidized alternative energy, the subsidies have to be raised through taxes, which will inevitably cause the prices of everything else to go up. For instance, if we put in cap and trade, the cost of energy would skyrocket, and the cost to manufacture basically anything would also go up sharply. Thus, our manufacturers who are already having a hard time competing on the world market, would have an even more difficult time competing. Thus there is no reason to believe that there would be a net increase in jobs if cap and trade were to go into effect.
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