Even slave wage China offers universal health care (salary, illegal, health care system)

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli

Compare the immigration and emigration figures between the US and those countries and answer your own question. There's a reason a pint of beer tops $10 in Norway.

Yeah; Canada has a greater proportionate number of higher skilled immigarants then the U.S. ...what was your point again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_in_2005

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

The argument against universal healthcare isn't that we can't afford it, it is that it is incompatible with freedom. Universal healthcare would no doubt be cheaper than what we have now, it would just be an unacceptable intrusion of government into our civil liberties.

"Incompatible with freedom". Whaaaa as compared to TSA patdowns, Patriot act, Obama phones, food stamps, multi generational welfare etc., all being good?...... Gimme a freak'n break!

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

China pushing universal health care - Xinhua | English.news.cn

China provides universal health insurance at a fraction of the cost - CHP/PCOR

China, the wet dream of businesses who love to exploit their workers has universal health care.

Declaring it's availability and actually being able to get it, and at what tier of care are completely different issues.

It's like Germany's free higher education.....if you are in the top %'s.

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

China pushing universal health care - Xinhua | English.news.cn

China provides universal health insurance at a fraction of the cost - CHP/PCOR

China, the wet dream of businesses who love to exploit their workers has universal health care.

Great!

Let's cut your wages to slave wages and then "give you" universal health care! Then you can be happy, just like they are in China.

[Bettafish]

Originally Posted by lycos679

American doctors are paid too much in comparison to where?

For example, a doctor in China is paid the same as a college professor, but much busier.

In the US a college professor makes $60~100k, on average. Top ones make $200k.
Doctors should be like that too.

[jmking]

Originally Posted by mwruckman

You need to be very careful as to what constitutes "Health Care" in a country like China and you also need to understand that the health care in a few elite places like Beijing, Hong Kong or Shanghai is very different than what might be available to the vast majority of Chinese who do not live in Beijing, Hong Kong or Shanghai. Health Care in the rest of China might not go beyond a few basic disinfectants, antibiotics and basic procedures to control accidental bleeding, deliver a baby, deal with basic illnesses and provide splints or casts for broken bones. This level of health care is what was available in the United States a century ago. To provide Chinese with the same standard of care as in the USA or even Britain would cost the Chinese government about 10 trillion dollars a year or just over 100% of that nations GDP (The USA with 1/5 the population spends just over 2 trillion dollars a year). So China has a ways to go before they catch up. In fact China has about the same GDP per capita as Peru or Honduras so a comparison with health care in these nations might be a more valid exercise.

This is true. Corruption is rampant in their delivery of healthcare. My understand is much of it is under the radar, black market.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

Businesses in China are allowed to pay child workers pennies. If a country like that can afford universal health care, pretty much most industrialized countries can.

So what you're saying is you're willing to work for pennies, so we can afford to give you universal health care..

[DoD Guy]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

China pushing universal health care - Xinhua | English.news.cn

China provides universal health insurance at a fraction of the cost - CHP/PCOR

China, the wet dream of businesses who love to exploit their workers has universal health care.

Yes, the Chinese govt offers other things too. Move there and discover what they are.
Don't forget to write.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

China, the wet dream of businesses who love to exploit their workers has universal health care.

They also have a 1-Child Policy.....you want to adopt that, too?

If not, that would make your position hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest

Governments dont have their own money

Shirley, you and I and others know that, but Franky, the Liberals still just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

It's just good business because it massively lowers health care costs.....

No, it doesn't, and you can't prove it does.

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

Yes, folks, economies of scale still work and lower per unit prices and it is impossible to get a larger volume than the entire population of a country thus you end up getting the lowest possible per unit price all other things remaining the same. Republican opposition to universal health care isn't just bad politics but it is also just bad economics.

That is magnificent, but it is not Economics.

The two driving factors in health care costs in the US are Technology and Consumer Demand.

What universal health care in other States does is forcibly reduce Consumer Demand, and limit the application of Technology, resulting in the rationing of health care causing people to be denied health care treatment, have delayed health care treatment, or receive diluted health care treatment to the point of ineffectiveness.

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

The argument against universal healthcare isn't that we can't afford it,...

Uh, no, sorry, you cannot afford it.

I could set you up with a scheme that would work, but Liberals wouldn't want it, because it wouldn't be "free" and it would be more like a Fiat (or Dacia) instead of a Maserati.

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

...it is that it is incompatible with freedom.

Quite.

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

Universal healthcare would no doubt be cheaper than what we have now, it would just be an unacceptable intrusion of government into our civil liberties.

No, it would not be cheaper, and in fact, it would increase costs. This proves universal systems are not cheaper....

Expenditure of selected health care functions by providers of health care, per inhabitant [hlth_sha1h]

Last update 25.10.11
Extracted on 06.01.13
Source of Data Eurostat
UNIT Euro per inhabitant
ICHA_HC Health care expenditure
ICHA_HP All providers of health care

Romania.......310.39
South Korea....... 837.74
Slovakia....... 1,060.60
Denmark....... 4,643.97
Switzerland....... 5,215.64
Norway....... 5,343.49
Luxembourg....... 5,438.46
United States....... 5,684.68

UNIT Euro per inhabitant
ICHA_HF General government

Romania....... 241.10
South Korea....... 473.18
Slovakia....... 690.87
United States....... 2,657.86
Switzerland .......3,114.60
Denmark .......3,775.17
Luxembourg .......4,105.86
Norway .......4,195.13

That is how much the governments of those countries spend on each person.

UNIT Euro per inhabitant
ICHA_HF Private household out-of-pocket expenditure

Romania .......63.95
Slovakia .......268.80
South Korea .......271.69
Denmark....... 611.68
Luxembourg .......680.76
United States....... 697.13
Norway .......805.54
Switzerland....... 1,590.18

No, I didn’t stutter…..those are out-of-pocket expenses.

Database

Source: EuroStat - The European Commission of the European Union.

Other States with universal systems, like Germany, can control health care spending by simply refusing to spend.

I'll let the German Minister of Health explain it to you....

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

"Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent". -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

If you are spending $400 per month on groceries, and then you reduce your spending to $300 per month, explain how groceries "cost less."

The groceries don't cost less....the grocery prices haven't changed at all....the prices are still the same, however you spent less, and in addition to the fact that you spent less, you also went generic instead of buying name-brand in order to save money.

Without government involvement, the people of Canada and Euro-States -- especially those that are as affluent as America --- would spend exactly the same amount that America spends now.

But that doesn't happen, because government limits what people can spend.

One reason for those governments to do that, is because it is harmful to spend money on health care, because the outcomes are always the same, regardless of the money spent, but human nature doesn't allow people to think that way.

Originally Posted by Bettafish

America is not a good example either. The doctors are paid way too high

Yeah, that's right.....doctors are a dime a dozen....any ass clown can be a doctor....heck, you could probably walk out onto the street and stare at someone for fifteen minutes and they'll morph into a doctor, because it's just that easy.

Finitely...

Mircea

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by Jolly Green Giant

Businesses in China are allowed to pay child workers pennies. If a country like that can afford universal health care, pretty much most industrialized countries can.

Things have changed drastically in the past 20 years, this is no longer true.

Now, if you had said "China allows businesses to exploit prisoners," then that would be much truer.