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Old 03-27-2013, 12:32 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,996 posts, read 10,429,495 times
Reputation: 5751

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So if we're going to quarantine people with HIV for the greater good, both in terms of cost and lives, isn't that also a strong case for quarantining people who have the flu?

On average, 25,000 people die from flu complications every year in the U.S., and its overall cost to the U.S. economy is estimated at between 71 and 167 billion dollars per year.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:35 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,944,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
If you can answer my two questions I'll be glad to answer yours.
Reading the link in the original post would answer both of your questions. Perhaps you should partake in that venture.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:44 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,944,554 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
So if we're going to quarantine people with HIV for the greater good, both in terms of cost and lives, isn't that also a strong case for quarantining people who have the flu?

On average, 25,000 people die from flu complications every year in the U.S., and its overall cost to the U.S. economy is estimated at between 71 and 167 billion dollars per year.
People were quarantined for the flu pandemic of 1918-19. If it came to it again they could do it again. DHS set guidelines a couple year back for possible quarantine during the swine flue outbreak. I guess you don't pay much attention to what is going on. Of course an exec order naming the particular disease need to be issued at the federal level. I believe Bush issued one back in the early days about influenza that reaches a pandemic level.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:45 PM
 
8,289 posts, read 13,528,609 times
Reputation: 5018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I think you just want to ignore the issue so that these diseases can continue to kill off gays, prisoners and other people you find "undesirable" and thus expendable.

Yeah, let's not quarantine people with drug resistant TB....just put them back in their cell....that will free up some more beds soon enough.

Ever seen the TB death stats in the US prison system?
Do you know how hard it is to transmit HIV? You have to have very close personal contact to be infected! (aka sex) Tell me who would you rather be on a plane with? Somebody who has HIV or somebody hacking up their lungs with TB?
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:03 PM
 
6,844 posts, read 3,927,206 times
Reputation: 15854
You missed one thing. Infectious Hepatitis has surpassed AIDS as a cause of death in the US. But I guess the Kansas legislators don't know how to use Google.
But if they were actually motivated by saving lives instead of creating another boogey man to incarcerate (they have done pretty well with non violent drug offenders in the last 30 years), they might also notice that more people in the US die from .... alcohol (cirrhosis), guns (accidents and homicides), cigarettes (lung cancer), hospital visits (infection), doctors (prescription drug interactions and medical mistakes), cars (traffic fatalities) ... and do something about those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Then you might want to read....

The United States does not derive any of its substantive powers from the Preamble of the Constitution. It cannot exert any power to secure the declared objects of the Constitution unless, apart from the Preamble, such power be found in, or can properly be implied from, some express delegation in the instrument.


While the spirit of the Constitution is to be respected not less than its letter, the spirit is to be collected chiefly from its words.

The police power of a State embraces such reasonable regulations relating to matters completely within its territory, and not affecting the people of other States, established directly by legislative enactment, as will protect the public health and safety.

While a local regulation, even if based on the acknowledged police power of a State, must always yield in case of conflict with the exercise by the General Government of any power it possesses under the Constitution, the mode or manner of exercising its police power is wholly within the discretion of the State so long as the Constitution of the United States is not contravened, or any right granted or secured thereby is not infringed, or not exercised in such an arbitrary and oppressive manner as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.

The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.


See Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

[Emphasis mine]



His comments were as applicable as the US Supreme Court case I cited above.



No doubt, especially when people's lives are at stake. I guess it's a good thing you weren't in Vietnam.....you'd have gotten "fragged."

This is a Political forum. Your personal attack is childish.


Yes, we know.....100s of Millions of Americans have been abused and terrorized by an handful of people claiming their right to engage in abnormal sexual acts, illegal drug use, prostitution and infidelity trumps the health and safety of Millions and Millions of People.



What an intelligent bunch there is in Kansas.

I fixed your sentence for you.



^^^This^^^



You admit it's an "epidemic."

The proper course of action for any "epidemic" is quarantine.



Let me see if I got this straight....

1] A minority of the population engages in illegal, unethical or immoral actions such as abnormal sexual acts, prostitution, drug use and vagrancy.

2] The results of their illegal, unethical or immoral acts causes the spread of a deadly and debilitating disease for which there is no real cure, and which costs an extraordinarily enormous amount of money to treat medically, including an extremely large amount of tax-payer funds.

3] The actions of this small minority are compounded due to the fact that prostitutes, drug users and vagrants (who often perform homosexual acts for money) sell their blood for money, resulting in contamination of the blood bank system in the United States.

4] The illegal, unethical or immoral actions of this small minority are compounded further by the illegal, unethical and immoral actions of the American Red Cross, who refuse to test blood that may be contaminated, "because it costs too much."

5] The end result of this series of illegal, unethical and immoral acts has caused innocent persons to be subjected to a deadly disease for which there is no cure and which is extraordinarily costly to treat, against their will.


6] Congress then enacts laws to protect the American Red Cross --- an quasi-federal non-profit corporation tasked with maintaining and operating America's blood bank system --- from liability and culpability, allowing the Red Cross to dump its HIV-tainted blood on 2nd World States in Eastern Europe and 3rd World States in Africa and Southeast Asia, resulting in Millions and Millions of people being infected against their will.

7] Then during the last 32 years, the American tax-payer has been soaked and stuck throwing away money on needle exchange programs, condom give-away programs, "HIV/AIDs Education" and numerous other HIV/AIDs indoctrination programs, plus government bureaucracies to enforce "anti-discrimination laws."

8] $Billions more in public and private medical research money has been siphoned away from research on cancer, birth defects, mental illness and other medical issues because a vocal minority who voluntarily exposed themselves to HIV/AIDs through their owns illegal, unethical or immoral acts has parades and marches and pompously strut about wearing HIV/AIDs like it was some kind of Combat Infantry Badge.

9] This same vocal minority has held America hostage terrorizing Americans (and the World) for 33 years now.

10] Finally, we have the highly disingenuous argument that HIV/AIDs is an "epidemic" but only when it suits a particular agenda, and in particular it suits them when they are demanding money, but when it is suggested that the proper and just course of action that benefits that vast majority of Americans is to apply quarantine regimens to stop the "epidemic" it isn't an "epidemic" or people are buried under the mantra of "protecting individual rights."

Did I miss anything? I think not.

If quarantine procedures had been enacted decades ago, $Billions in tax-payer dollars would have been saved, and Millions of lives would not have been destroyed by a small minority who insist it is their right to engage in illegal, unethical or immoral acts at the expense of others.

Sagaciously...


Mircea[/quote]
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:06 PM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,185,829 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Then you might want to read....

The United States does not derive any of its substantive powers from the Preamble of the Constitution. It cannot exert any power to secure the declared objects of the Constitution unless, apart from the Preamble, such power be found in, or can properly be implied from, some express delegation in the instrument.


While the spirit of the Constitution is to be respected not less than its letter, the spirit is to be collected chiefly from its words.

The police power of a State embraces such reasonable regulations relating to matters completely within its territory, and not affecting the people of other States, established directly by legislative enactment, as will protect the public health and safety.

While a local regulation, even if based on the acknowledged police power of a State, must always yield in case of conflict with the exercise by the General Government of any power it possesses under the Constitution, the mode or manner of exercising its police power is wholly within the discretion of the State so long as the Constitution of the United States is not contravened, or any right granted or secured thereby is not infringed, or not exercised in such an arbitrary and oppressive manner as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.

The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.


See Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

[Emphasis mine]



His comments were as applicable as the US Supreme Court case I cited above.



No doubt, especially when people's lives are at stake. I guess it's a good thing you weren't in Vietnam.....you'd have gotten "fragged."

This is a Political forum. Your personal attack is childish.


Yes, we know.....100s of Millions of Americans have been abused and terrorized by an handful of people claiming their right to engage in abnormal sexual acts, illegal drug use, prostitution and infidelity trumps the health and safety of Millions and Millions of People.



What an intelligent bunch there is in Kansas.

I fixed your sentence for you.



^^^This^^^



You admit it's an "epidemic."

The proper course of action for any "epidemic" is quarantine.



Let me see if I got this straight....

1] A minority of the population engages in illegal, unethical or immoral actions such as abnormal sexual acts, prostitution, drug use and vagrancy.

2] The results of their illegal, unethical or immoral acts causes the spread of a deadly and debilitating disease for which there is no real cure, and which costs an extraordinarily enormous amount of money to treat medically, including an extremely large amount of tax-payer funds.

3] The actions of this small minority are compounded due to the fact that prostitutes, drug users and vagrants (who often perform homosexual acts for money) sell their blood for money, resulting in contamination of the blood bank system in the United States.

4] The illegal, unethical or immoral actions of this small minority are compounded further by the illegal, unethical and immoral actions of the American Red Cross, who refuse to test blood that may be contaminated, "because it costs too much."

5] The end result of this series of illegal, unethical and immoral acts has caused innocent persons to be subjected to a deadly disease for which there is no cure and which is extraordinarily costly to treat, against their will.


6] Congress then enacts laws to protect the American Red Cross --- an quasi-federal non-profit corporation tasked with maintaining and operating America's blood bank system --- from liability and culpability, allowing the Red Cross to dump its HIV-tainted blood on 2nd World States in Eastern Europe and 3rd World States in Africa and Southeast Asia, resulting in Millions and Millions of people being infected against their will.

7] Then during the last 32 years, the American tax-payer has been soaked and stuck throwing away money on needle exchange programs, condom give-away programs, "HIV/AIDs Education" and numerous other HIV/AIDs indoctrination programs, plus government bureaucracies to enforce "anti-discrimination laws."

8] $Billions more in public and private medical research money has been siphoned away from research on cancer, birth defects, mental illness and other medical issues because a vocal minority who voluntarily exposed themselves to HIV/AIDs through their owns illegal, unethical or immoral acts has parades and marches and pompously strut about wearing HIV/AIDs like it was some kind of Combat Infantry Badge.

9] This same vocal minority has held America hostage terrorizing Americans (and the World) for 33 years now.

10] Finally, we have the highly disingenuous argument that HIV/AIDs is an "epidemic" but only when it suits a particular agenda, and in particular it suits them when they are demanding money, but when it is suggested that the proper and just course of action that benefits that vast majority of Americans is to apply quarantine regimens to stop the "epidemic" it isn't an "epidemic" or people are buried under the mantra of "protecting individual rights."

Did I miss anything? I think not.

If quarantine procedures had been enacted decades ago, $Billions in tax-payer dollars would have been saved, and Millions of lives would not have been destroyed by a small minority who insist it is their right to engage in illegal, unethical or immoral acts at the expense of others.

Sagaciously...


Mircea[/quote]

I think you did miss something.

There have been people that got HIV from a blood transfusion. Are they as bad as those others you villify?
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:09 PM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,185,829 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Just two questions.

1. If Magic Johnson visits Kansas, does he get locked up in quarantine for the rest of his life?

2. In the most heavily incarcerated society in the history of the planet, are we ready to create a whole new type of prison where diseased people will be incarcerated for life, prevented from working or mixing with the general population, paid for by the idiot taxpayers who voted for it? If so, the prison industrial complex must be dancing for joy.

I would say this is the most monumentally stupid idea ever, except that stupidity, like greed, has no limit.
I don't think the population gets to vote on it."paid for by the idiot taxpayers who voted for it?"
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:25 PM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,944,554 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Yes, we know.....100s of Millions of Americans have been abused and terrorized by an handful of people claiming their right to engage in abnormal sexual acts, illegal drug use, prostitution and infidelity trumps the health and safety of Millions and Millions of People.



What an intelligent bunch there is in Kansas.

I fixed your sentence for you.



^^^This^^^



You admit it's an "epidemic."

The proper course of action for any "epidemic" is quarantine.



Let me see if I got this straight....

1] A minority of the population engages in illegal, unethical or immoral actions such as abnormal sexual acts, prostitution, drug use and vagrancy.

2] The results of their illegal, unethical or immoral acts causes the spread of a deadly and debilitating disease for which there is no real cure, and which costs an extraordinarily enormous amount of money to treat medically, including an extremely large amount of tax-payer funds.

3] The actions of this small minority are compounded due to the fact that prostitutes, drug users and vagrants (who often perform homosexual acts for money) sell their blood for money, resulting in contamination of the blood bank system in the United States.

4] The illegal, unethical or immoral actions of this small minority are compounded further by the illegal, unethical and immoral actions of the American Red Cross, who refuse to test blood that may be contaminated, "because it costs too much."

5] The end result of this series of illegal, unethical and immoral acts has caused innocent persons to be subjected to a deadly disease for which there is no cure and which is extraordinarily costly to treat, against their will.


6] Congress then enacts laws to protect the American Red Cross --- an quasi-federal non-profit corporation tasked with maintaining and operating America's blood bank system --- from liability and culpability, allowing the Red Cross to dump its HIV-tainted blood on 2nd World States in Eastern Europe and 3rd World States in Africa and Southeast Asia, resulting in Millions and Millions of people being infected against their will.

7] Then during the last 32 years, the American tax-payer has been soaked and stuck throwing away money on needle exchange programs, condom give-away programs, "HIV/AIDs Education" and numerous other HIV/AIDs indoctrination programs, plus government bureaucracies to enforce "anti-discrimination laws."

8] $Billions more in public and private medical research money has been siphoned away from research on cancer, birth defects, mental illness and other medical issues because a vocal minority who voluntarily exposed themselves to HIV/AIDs through their owns illegal, unethical or immoral acts has parades and marches and pompously strut about wearing HIV/AIDs like it was some kind of Combat Infantry Badge.

9] This same vocal minority has held America hostage terrorizing Americans (and the World) for 33 years now.

10] Finally, we have the highly disingenuous argument that HIV/AIDs is an "epidemic" but only when it suits a particular agenda, and in particular it suits them when they are demanding money, but when it is suggested that the proper and just course of action that benefits that vast majority of Americans is to apply quarantine regimens to stop the "epidemic" it isn't an "epidemic" or people are buried under the mantra of "protecting individual rights."

Did I miss anything? I think not.

If quarantine procedures had been enacted decades ago, $Billions in tax-payer dollars would have been saved, and Millions of lives would not have been destroyed by a small minority who insist it is their right to engage in illegal, unethical or immoral acts at the expense of others.

Sagaciously...


Mircea
I think you did miss something.

There have been people that got HIV from a blood transfusion. Are they as bad as those others you villify?[/quote]

Who tainted that blood?
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,136,945 times
Reputation: 10428
I don't understand. What's the point of quarantining someone with HIV? You can't get it be breathing around someone with it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,384,917 times
Reputation: 9595
Unfortunately this should have been done when the outbreak first occurred, now it's all a little too late.



NBC's Earliest Report on AIDS 1982 - YouTube
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