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Old 04-01-2013, 04:29 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
Reputation: 10270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Let the employees create their own company.

Why didn't the unions rescue Hostess and turn it into an employee owned company ?
Why didn't some leftie entertainers do it?

Or how about al gore?
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:32 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
What is to say they could not if they had more capital themselves? I suspect they did not have enough.

But this suggestion is also a red herring. Most workers do not have the skills to start their own businesses. I think we could meaningfully discuss whether they could or should, but the truth is most workers don't tend to be good capitalists or self-managers. Still, they are a critical part of our economy and society, even if they never become business owners.
So why are they worth higher wages?
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:33 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The amount of spending on entertainment by the middle class has tripled since 1960, the square footage of a home has increased by over 250%, and the number of cars owned by a middle class family has increased by 80% over the last 60 years.

The middle class could do quite well if they kept a consistent standard of living.
Don't confuse lefties with facts.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:00 PM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,294,075 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Being an employee doesn't give you the right to any financial information about others. Period. It's none of YOUR business what agreement my employer and I have regarding my pay.

Love liberals - it's all about "forcing" businesses. Do you even understand what freedom MEANS?

I'll give you a hint as to how you know how much you should get paid - it's the amount someone is willing to pay you to do the job you are hired to do.
You are wrong. Within a company the compensation of co-workers and management and other factors directly impact a worker's income. I say this information that directly impacts that employee's pay should be known to that employee.

conservatives lie and say they want workers to negotiate what they are worth, but this is just word vomit because most workers don't have the information needed to negotiate that higher income.

This information would give employee's the tools to get better and more equitable compensation. At the very least, it would force companies to explain how they value certain work and why others are making more. All I advocate is for more information to be shared within a company to empower employees of that company to get higher pay.


It would force companies to demonstrate why one worker is being paid 10 times more than another. It is because this other employee is 10 more productive to the bottom line or for some other reason. This would force more open and objective standards to be used while discussing pay.

Employee's/workers cannot do this without more information.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The average american works less hours per week now than ever in the history of the country. We hardly work 'long hours for peanuts'.

True. And there is a direct correlation between hours worked and income level.

Basically, lower income people work less hours on average.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Give the workers a bigger slice of the pie.
We don't need to "give" workers anything. They need to earn a bigger slice of the pie if they truly want it. The problem is most workers don't want it bad enough.

And workers today do have a much bigger slice of the pie than at any time in our history. Workers have more discretionary spending, more recreation, more entertainment, nicer electronics, nicer cars and bigger houses than ever.

You have to wait for an hour to eat out on weekends. Workers all across the country buy up the latest smartphones and other luxury items every year. Sports events sell out all over the country. There is no shortage of people with lots of discretionary spending.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,728,778 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
You are wrong. Within a company the compensation of co-workers and management and other factors directly impact a worker's income. I say this information that directly impacts that employee's pay should be known to that employee.
........


It would force companies to demonstrate why one worker is being paid 10 times more than another. It is because this other employee is 10 more productive to the bottom line or for some other reason. This would force more open and objective standards to be used while discussing pay.

Employee's/workers cannot do this without more information.
That information is quite public. For the most part, it's SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,295,184 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Seems to me that we have been racing to the bottom for years. In the classic battle of labor and capital, labor has rolled over. Now we cheer about cutting the minimum wage, busting unions, fawning over the super wealthy,etc. But here is the thing. When workers earn a decent wage, they spend it. Much more of our money recirculates when workers are fairly paid, and the economy is healthier and more productive. Right now we are in a race for the bottom, where the workers relative wealth and health are stagnant or declining, job security is shattered, and we paper over that with low priced junk from Wal-Mart, Dollar Stores, and food stamps for the working poor.

Admittedly, paying labor more raises prices, but guess what? We are the most innovative country in the world. Why can't we appeal to the achievement drive of our employees. They want to do world class work, not produce cheap schlock. Why not ask them to do world class work, rather than work long hours for peanuts? The Germans do this, and they do it well. This will only come from the will of the people, and a respect for the drive and creativity of the workers.

When folks go from millionaires to billionaires, I think their achievement focus declines. They might have wanted to do something worthwhile at one point, but eventually it becomes ALL about aggregating wealth. That attitude is not what made America great. It is a pathology. A thirst for real innovation and achievement has always been more important than pure greed. Our workers can beat our capitalist overlords at that anytime, and when we invest in the worker, the country leads the world. The last century has shown this plainly. Tax cuts for the rich, in contrast, do almost nothing, except fund lobbyists and Super Pacs.
Bigger slice of what "pie'? There is no "pie."

Wages are set by the market. They are not arbitrarily set by any one company. Any given job has a salary or wage range. What a person is paid depends on their experience and skill within that job category. Employees are fairly paid, according to the market.

The "low priced junk" at Walmart and Dollar stores are the same brand name products you can buy anywhere else (and pay more for them). But their profit margin is less, and they hope to make it up in volume. They don't sell "low priced junk."

Your entire premise is wrong. One should do their best regardless of what their pay is. If they are not doing their best, they don't deserve higher pay. Period. Pay increases are based on merit. When you accept a job, you agree to the wage offer. If you don't do your best, you don't deserve the job in the first place. Your employer will be happy to replace you with someone else, who has a better work ethic than you do.

Get a life!
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,982 posts, read 13,755,730 times
Reputation: 5691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
True. And there is a direct correlation between hours worked and income level.

Basically, lower income people work less hours on average.
This is exactly why CEOs earn 400 times workers' wages. They work 16,000 hours a week!
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,295,184 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Looking at data and facts now makes me 'out of touch'? Knowing that the average size of a middle class house in 1950 was 900 sqft whereas today it is 2,400 sqft is 'out of touch'? Knowing that spending on non-essential entertainment expenses as a % of net income has increased by a multiple of three among the middle class from 1960 to today is 'out of touch'?

I apologize for looking at facts instead of blindly listening to mother jones and MSNBC. What was I thinking?
Nevermind. Consider the source. These people are idiots. It's hardly worth arguing with them. They are not smart people.
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