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Old 04-05-2013, 02:56 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,224,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italianuser View Post
Don't blue states have a lot of blue cities? Yet the murder rate is still lower. Your question is pointless.
Let me guess: your head is going to explode because I show you that gun-friendly States have HIGHER crime than those "evil" liberal States?
Truth hurts, does it?
Let me guess: you have always repeated NRA's catch phrases as if they were the word of God.
Anyway, why those States have such a high level of violence?
Aren't all those guns in the hands of the mythical law abiding owner supposed to create crime-free utopias? Isn't Louisiana supposed to be more like Japan when it comes to crime?
Maybe they need MORE guns
2011
California - 4.8
Pennsylvania - 5.0
Maryland - 6.8
Illinois - 5.6
Michigan - 6.2
New Jersey - 4.3

Alaska - 4.0
Indiana - 4.8
Texas - 4.4
Montana - 2.8
Utah - 1.9
Kentucky 3.5

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: African-American Population
CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: Hispanic Population
CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: Non-Hispanic White Population
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:04 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,224,460 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by italianuser View Post
Detroit is not in a gun control state.
DC crime is fastly declining.
California is not even on the top 20 when it comes to the most murderous states.
NYC is among the safest cities, with San Jose and San Diego.
Chicago crime is quite bad, unfortunately: but there are several cities with higher murder rate.

Also, let me remind you that the thread is about STATES' murder rate, not cities.

Anyway, I'll post it again.

FBI data (I repeat: FBI data) Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center
Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

Most violent states:

Louisiana 11.2
Mississippi 8.0
New Mexico 7.5
Maryland 6.8
South Carolina 6.8
Alabama 6.3
Michigan 6.2
Arizona 6.2
Missouri 6.1
Tennessee 5.8
Illinois 5.6
Georgia 5.6
Oklahoma 5.5
Arkansas 5.5
North Carolina 5.3
Nevada 5.2
Florida 5.2
Pennsylvania 5.0


U.S. Gun Homicide Rates: A Comparative Look - Businessweek
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,053,666 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
If you are interested in the relationship between gun laws and gun violence, you don't look at total murders.
I showed data already about GUN MURDERS for several states with utterly lax gun laws, yet very low GUN MURDER rates. Utah and New Hampshire for example.

And my favorite example, which you like to ignore, Texas and California. California has the strictest gun laws in the US (except perhaps CT now) and has a higher gun murder rate than Texas, which scores very low on the Brady scale.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:21 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,224,460 times
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United States Poverty Map — Visualizing Economics
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:21 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,152,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post


how about including suicide rates? since liberals like to always include those numbers into their biased data.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:22 PM
 
13,966 posts, read 14,875,397 times
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I heard Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine are very dangerous, oh wait, they have a murder rate much lower than Connecticut, with the toughest laws.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:22 PM
 
77,898 posts, read 60,048,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
The question has never been how high our rates might be but rather what can we do to EFFECTIVELY lower it.

Let's look at a US problem of auto fatalities and see what was done to lower it.

1) Identify the major contributors to the problem. This turned out to be drunk drivers.

2) Target that behavior. As such you see much stiffer penalties as well as checkpoints etc. aimed at reducing drunken driving. (Impaired driving is still involved in about 50% of auto fatalities and it didn't even use to be explicitly illegal.)

I think we can call that a success.

Now let's look at guns.

1) the majority of gun murders are related to drugs and gangs.

2) The proposed solution instead of targeting drug dealing gangs etc.....is to instead target all gun owners, the vast majority of which are law abiding.

See, that's why you have so much resistance. You aren't targeting the problem, you are targeting the tool.

Look at Chicago. They have neighborhoods with 1 death per 100k and others with 40+ per 100k just a couple miles away. Same laws. So why is it that with the same laws and availability the rate is 40x higher? Could it be the problem isn't the guns there?
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,053,666 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Take a look at the study I linked to in the post right above yours.
That article says

"Conclusions and Relevance A higher number of firearm laws in a state are associated with a lower rate of firearm fatalities in the state, overall and for suicides and homicides individually. As our study could not determine cause-and-effect relationships, further studies are necessary to define the nature of this association."

Also:

"Although multiple studies have examined the relationship between federal and state firearm laws and homicide and suicide rates, the overall association between firearm legislation and firearm mortality is uncertain and remains controversial."

Because the authors of this study respect science and statistics, they say only that they showed a link. They drew no conclusions whatsoever on cause and effect. As should you.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:22 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,320,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Universal background checks will not make a difference
1. The majority of crime guns come from straw purchasers or a stolen per the DOJ, this universal background checks wouldn't actually reduce crime.
http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf
By making stronger regulations it could be easier to focus in on those obtaining guns illegally.

2. Even those who are denied during current background checks, where the majority of guns are already purchased, are not prosecuted. It is a felony to lie on federal form 4473. In 2010 of the 76k denials from the background check only 62 per prosecuted.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/bjs/grants/239272.pdf

So again, stricture laws are needed to be in place, if the current ones aren't working.
3. The only way a universal background check system would work is if every gun is registered to its owners. Canada tried this and it was a complete failure. Why would a system that failed in Canada where they have less than 10 million guns and 35 million people work here where we have an estimated 300 million guns and over 300 million people?
Trudeau calls long-gun registry 'a failure' - Canada - CBC News
Canada is a different country than America is. Far less violent. Again, guns aren't our SOLE problem, but getting some control over them is a good first step.

4. Criminals do not follow the law and will not participate in background checks and will get guns as outlined in item 1.
https://www.commonsense.com
Then criminals will only be able to obtain guns illegally. Which will make it harder to obtain them (and that can't be overstated enough). Again, this is a bandaid, there are far bigger issues at hand that we as a society need to deal with and can't ignore. We are a violent culture in America. Several things need to change, making it so that murderers can't just walk into a pawn shop and buy a gun should be one of those things.

Test to determine eligibility to vote (an enumerated right like owning a firearm) have already been found to be unconstitutional.

There is nothing in the constitution about owning assault rifles. At all. Period.
How would you make a gun easily traceable? They already have to have a serial number and micro stamping will not work. All you need is a file of to change a part out to make it meaningless.

"Multi shot assault rifles" are already highly regulated.
National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see the first ammendment is a civil right, the 5th amendment is a civil right, the 14th amendment is a civil right. Guess what, the 2nd amendment is a civil right.

But like those other amendments we need to re-evaluate them as our world changes. The first ammendment is the freedom of speech. Does that mean that when Melissa Mcarthy hosts Saturday Night Live tomorrow night she can say "I am so ****ing sick and tired of all the pieces of **** and ****ty **** ****s that I see walking around every day" Of course not, at least not with out some heavy fines being laid out because even though we do recognize the first ammendment as a civil right, there are federal regulations that prohibit people from saying certain things in certain places.

I would love to hear some ore ideas on how to further infringe on my freedoms.
I have no interest in infringing on your or anyone else's freedoms. The idea is that someone says "gun control" and people hear "they want to get rid of guns" and that's simply not the case.

Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Whatever we're doing in this country has led us to a point where public shootings, mass killings are almost commonplace. Where a human being ending the life of another human being isn't even always considered "headline" news, because it happens all the time.
The instrument most commonly used for the purpose of murder SHOULD be regulated. It doesn't mean that people shouldn't own one. It doesn't mean that regulating them is going to put an end to death, murder or even gun violence. But just hiding behind your interpretation of the second ammendment hasn't gotten us any closer to what I think the supposed goal is, which should be to make this place a safer place to be.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,152,974 times
Reputation: 5239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I showed data already about GUN MURDERS for several states with utterly lax gun laws, yet very low GUN MURDER rates. Utah and New Hampshire for example.

And my favorite example, which you like to ignore, Texas and California. California has the strictest gun laws in the US (except perhaps CT now) and has a higher gun murder rate than Texas, which scores very low on the Brady scale.


I think washington dc still has worse gun control laws than even CT has. wonder why they dont want to include dc's murder rate?
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