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TheMoreYouKnow, I don't have any of those insecurities. As I've stated I've never been in a situation where I even felt remotely the necessity of carrying a weapon (aside from the Army).
Of course, I could sit around all day obsessing over whether this or that could happen but I don't and most people don't.
But big brave man you are, you proclaim you'll shoot someone over essentially nothing. A stolen TV or lap top isn't worth a death. Ignorant insecurities? Looking at you now.
There's no way GZ could ever live in the area where this took place if he were to be cleared of these charges. I wouldn't even expect him to stay in the US.
Well, just FYI, the incident did not take place in S. Florida. Sanford is north of Orlando, which puts it in Central Florida, a good 250+ miles from Miami.
All very good points. And I have a few questions related to those points. I didn't think about people who train in re martial arts. Good point.
You seem to be a very well trained and responsible gun owner. You said you train weekly. I'm assuming that Zimmerman probably did not do the kind of training you do because he certainly didn't seem as knowledgeable as you. If you have concerns about approaching someone who seems unarmed even if you are armed because of your knowledge in re special physical training an unarmed person can have, it makes me wonder why in the world Zimmerman chose to follow someone he didn't know through the condo complex on a dark rainy night.
The only thing I've read which relates to mixed martial arts is the one witness who at first claimed Martin was throwing punches like MMA when he was on top of Zimmerman. Then the witness changed his story and said he wasn't sure who was on top of who. That change in story is going to cause that witness some credibility issues if he testifies. I have read nothing anywhere which says Martin was trained in martial arts. Surely if he had taken classes anywhere that would be something the defense could easily find. And MAYBE they have found some evidence of Martin taking martial arts training. If they have found such evidence, they have to turn that over to the State in discovery, then it would be up to the State to follow up on it, like take the deposition of the instructor, or just interview the instructor, to find out how good a student Martin may have been. However, I haven't seen anything in the court file that suggests Martin was trained and skilled in MMA.
As to how lethal a single blow to the head can be, I agree with you. However, Zimmerman sustained at most a broken nose and a few minor abrasions to the back of his head. As I've said, it is strictly my opinion, it seems very plausible to me that Martin hit Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman fell backwards as a result of the hit, landed on his back and banged his head on the hard ground or sidewalk, and that's how he sustained those injuries. That's just an alternative scenario to the one Zimmerman is offering. I find it hard to believe that someone could be bashing your head hard against cement or concrete and you would not sustain at least a concussion or serious cuts to the back of your head which would minimally require a few stitches.
You make a good argument that an unarmed person can get the best of an armed person if they have the physical training and skills to do so. And you make a good argument that Zimmerman was anything but a knowledgeable and responsible gun owner as compared to people who do take the right to carry a firearm seriously and pursue training of how to properly use the firearm. I'm thinking that you would NEVER have done what Zimmerman did on that night.
Well, it could probably be argued that Trayvon did get a lick or two in, obviously he was fighting for his life....and where are the defense wounds on Trayvon caused by Zimmerman....Oh, that's right, he was too busy fumbling for his loaded gun. I sure hope they can get a jury that takes the evidence into consideration....I'm ok with what the jury decides.
I don't feel that any area or place that I go is specifically more or less dangerous than others. If I knew when and where my life might be put in danger don't you think I would stay out of that location?
I'm not sure why people like yourself who claim to not need to carry a weapon everywhere because "you're not paranoid" (of course insinuating that I am paranoid) are the very same people who are clearly worried or bothered by me carrying a concealed firearm. In all my years of carrying a firearm I've never once had a person notify me that they saw it or felt like people were aware I was carrying.
There are a lot of things out there that are a lot more dangerous to you than the gun I carry.
Where did I ever say I was worried or bothered by someone carrying a firearm?
I'm just trying to understand the mindset of people who almost seem to be waiting for an opportunity to shoot someone.
I'm not against guns - they have their place. In fact, my 22-year-old son has a lot of guns, including a handgun that he has a CCW permit for, and on Easter, I had to have him come over with that handgun and put down an old goat of mine that was suffering.
That same son went to town with me today and guess what? He had no reason to take that gun with him. And, tomorrow, when I go out of town to do my monthly banking and grocery shopping, since it's his day off, he will go with me (which he often does) and he won't feel the need to have his gun then, even though it means a trip out of town.
I'm just trying to understand. Does it give you a feeling of power to have that gun on you when you go into your local grocery store? Or K-Mart?
Do you like the stares and attention you get when your fellow K-Mart shoppers notice that you're "packing?"
Again.....I'm 58 years old and have probably been in thousands of stores and restaurants in my lifetime and not once have I ever come home thinking, "gee, I should have had a gun on me."
And I'm pretty sure that for whatever time I have left on this earth, I will never think that.
I don't know what state you live in - but I can ASSURE you that in my state - a wrongful death claim is worth much, much more than the cost of a funeral. My son is a good student, an athlete, and just got accepted to a great college.
Oh, I would get much more than the cost of his funeral. And then some.
You're probably wrong on this. Most people really don't know because it happens so rare.
You have to prove a financial difficulty from the loss of your son. And they don't ever give money for pain and suffering unless it's an extreme circumstance.
TheMoreYouKnow, I don't have any of those insecurities. As I've stated I've never been in a situation where I even felt remotely the necessity of carrying a weapon (aside from the Army).
Who said anything about insecurities? I'm not in the least bit insecure, again, don't attempt to project your own shortcomings on to me.
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Of course, I could sit around all day obsessing over whether this or that could happen but I don't and most people don't.
But big brave man you are, you proclaim you'll shoot someone over essentially nothing. A stolen TV or lap top isn't worth a death. Ignorant insecurities? Looking at you now.
I never claimed to be any of those things you just said nor did I say anything about shooting anyone over nothing. I just answered someone else 3 posts above yours and said that I wouldn't shoot someone stealing a TV from my house. How does it feel to be completely wrong and very ignorant all at the same time?
TheMoreYouKnow, I don't have any of those insecurities. As I've stated I've never been in a situation where I even felt remotely the necessity of carrying a weapon (aside from the Army).
Of course, I could sit around all day obsessing over whether this or that could happen but I don't and most people don't.
But big brave man you are, you proclaim you'll shoot someone over essentially nothing. A stolen TV or lap top isn't worth a death. Ignorant insecurities? Looking at you now.
This is another point that may be considered. I believe it comes down to what a normal rational person might do.....I've not ever seen one person say that they would have pursued a person like Zimmerman did...even if they are defending him in shooting this unarmed teen.
I think a jury of Zimmerman's peers would take his act of persuing a person for what it is, an act of aggression and imo....The whole reason this tragedy happened.
I'm sorry for his parents, no amount of money can bring back a lost child. But, it may help them feel that Trayvon has been vindicated some.
I am going to be watching the trial. I think even if some of us get a bit heated, it is at least a very debatable situation. And, regardless if we think alike I appreciate this format in which to discuss such controversy.
Show me the facts or the evidence that proves or even just suggests that GZ instigated the physical confrontation between the 2 of them. We know that at some point they came together in close proximity but there is no evidence whatsoever that says that GZ hit Trayvon or physically tried to detain him for any reason.
Witnesses did see Trayvon on top of GZ and forensics shows that Trayvon was shot with a single round in the center chest area at close proximity. All of that backs up GZ's account of what took place.
Who started the confrontation is a disputed fact. Words can indeed start a confrontation. I don't think Zimmerman is going to tell us what he may have said to Martin when they came together initially. That could be why the girl on the telephone with Martin is such an important witness, even if she did lie about her age and why she didn't go to Trayvon's funeral. There will indeed be phone records that a call was made between the two and at what time. Any words overheard would be of critical importance.
The one witness who said he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman has now changed his story to say he doesn't know who was on top of whom.
Where did I ever say I was worried or bothered by someone carrying a firearm?
I'm just trying to understand the mindset of people who almost seem to be waiting for an opportunity to shoot someone.
I'm not against guns - they have their place. In fact, my 22-year-old son has a lot of guns, including a handgun that he has a CCW permit for, and on Easter, I had to have him come over with that handgun and put down an old goat of mine that was suffering.
That same son went to town with me today and guess what? He had no reason to take that gun with him. And, tomorrow, when I go out of town to do my monthly banking and grocery shopping, since it's his day off, he will go with me (which he often does) and he won't feel the need to have his gun then, even though it means a trip out of town.
I'm just trying to understand. Does it give you a feeling of power to have that gun on you when you go into your local grocery store? Or K-Mart?
Do you like the stares and attention you get when your fellow K-Mart shoppers notice that you're "packing?"
Again.....I'm 58 years old and have probably been in thousands of stores and restaurants in my lifetime and not once have I ever come home thinking, "gee, I should have had a gun on me."
And I'm pretty sure that for whatever time I have left on this earth, I will never think that.
I've been carrying a self defense weapon for a number of years now and I've never once had anyone notice that I was carrying a concealed weapon. How exactly would I get some sense of power if nobody knows I carry?
I know what you're getting at, it's the same old pathetic illogical questioning that every anti-gun person throws out when trying to belittle someone like myself who chooses to legally own and carry a firearm. I'm not going to ever try convincing you that you should carry one, why do you care in any way why I choose to carry one? Have you talked to your son about why he has a concealed carry permit? Do you feel the same way about him as you do about people like me? Do you think he has a permit to give himself a feeling of power when he carries a gun?
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