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All very good points. And I have a few questions related to those points. I didn't think about people who train in re martial arts. Good point.
You seem to be a very well trained and responsible gun owner. You said you train weekly. I'm assuming that Zimmerman probably did not do the kind of training you do because he certainly didn't seem as knowledgeable as you.
Why do you make that assumption? I don't know what his level of training was but he seemed to handle his weapon just fine given the situation he was in.
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If you have concerns about approaching someone who seems unarmed even if you are armed because of your knowledge in re special physical training an unarmed person can have, it makes me wonder why in the world Zimmerman chose to follow someone he didn't know through the condo complex on a dark rainy night.
The only thing I've read which relates to mixed martial arts is the one witness who at first claimed Martin was throwing punches like MMA when he was on top of Zimmerman. Then the witness changed his story and said he wasn't sure who was on top of who. That change in story is going to cause that witness some credibility issues if he testifies. I have read nothing anywhere which says Martin was trained in martial arts. Surely if he had taken classes anywhere that would be something the defense could easily find. And MAYBE they have found some evidence of Martin taking martial arts training. If they have found such evidence, they have to turn that over to the State in discovery, then it would be up to the State to follow up on it, like take the deposition of the instructor, or just interview the instructor, to find out how good a student Martin may have been. However, I haven't seen anything in the court file that suggests Martin was trained and skilled in MMA.
As to how lethal a single blow to the head can be, I agree with you. However, Zimmerman sustained at most a broken nose and a few minor abrasions to the back of his head. As I've said, it is strictly my opinion, it seems very plausible to me that Martin hit Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman fell backwards as a result of the hit, landed on his back and banged his head on the hard ground or sidewalk, and that's how he sustained those injuries. That's just an alternative scenario to the one Zimmerman is offering. I find it hard to believe that someone could be bashing your head hard against cement or concrete and you would not sustain at least a concussion or serious cuts to the back of your head which would minimally require a few stitches.
You make a good argument that an unarmed person can get the best of an armed person if they have the physical training and skills to do so. And you make a good argument that Zimmerman was anything but a knowledgeable and responsible gun owner as compared to people who do take the right to carry a firearm seriously and pursue training of how to properly use the firearm. I'm thinking that you would NEVER have done what Zimmerman did on that night.
I would never put myself in the situation that GZ ended up in that night however If I were put in that situation I would do exactly what GZ did except I would have likely fired a second round just because that's what I train to do. I don't believe Trayvon or George had any kind of hand to hand combat training but I'd bet that both of them have been in fights before just based on their past. Trayvon was seen in a Youtube video participating in some sort of flight club group and GZ was a bouncer in a club. Both of those items make me feel like both of these guys had been in physical confrontations before.
I'm sorry that a child drowned in your back yard pool. That is awful. That is not what happened in this case.
I am not wondering. I have read many accounts that say George Zimmerman was not on duty. And, that the HOA had already said they didn't want people to be carrying weapons while on duty. So, he was an armed citizen going after a teen w/out any authority that night at all. Even the 911 operator told him to stop following Trayvon. Trayvon was living w/ his father and his father girlfriend. You obviously have some reading to catch up on.
We simply disagree. And, I'm OK with that.
It's a large community and he was a decent distance from his condo. Why does that matter?
How was he dangerous? He wasn't out in the parking lot shooting randomly at pedestrians. He didn't fire a shot until he felt his life was in danger.
Seems like the question is did he have a right to create a situation where he might be attacked and then shoot to kill.
Zimmerman was anything but a responsible gun owner, and he created the dangerous situation by following Martin. You've already given me many good reasons why an unarmed person can be more dangerous than an armed one; Zimmerman certainly should have known that if he was carrying a gun.
I'm sorry that a child drowned in your back yard pool. That is awful. That is not what happened in this case.
I am not wondering. I have read many accounts that say George Zimmerman was not on duty. And, that the HOA had already said they didn't want people to be carrying weapons while on duty. So, he was an armed citizen going after a teen w/out any authority that night at all. Even the 911 operator told him to stop following Trayvon. Trayvon was living w/ his father and his father girlfriend. You obviously have some reading to catch up on.
We simply disagree. And, I'm OK with that.
Seems like the question is did he have a right to create a situation where he might be attacked and then shoot to kill.
The question isn't if he had the right to create a situation, the question is did he create the situation or not.
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Zimmerman was anything but a responsible gun owner, and he created the dangerous situation by following Martin. You've already given me many good reasons why an unarmed person can be more dangerous than an armed one; Zimmerman certainly should have known that if he was carrying a gun.
The trial will determine if GZ created the situation or not, until then nobody knows. Following someone on a public sidewalk in a public space isn't illegal or even negligent.
I have never understood why someone would want to carry a weapon in their everyday life (law enforcement excluded). What does it prove? In actuality, it makes you yourself more dangerous. You take all that training but would you really shoot someone? You state that you would put up a hell of a fight but really? Or is it that you are (consciously or not) looking for a hell of a fight. Of course some people might shoot. And likely that would be their first thought.
I retired from the Army. Did I ever carry a weapon? You bet I did. Do I know how to shoot them and take care of then? Yes and yes, been there done that many times. But there is a time and place for anything. And I never, ever had the desire to carry a weapon in civilian life, Not then, not today.
I'm sorry that a child drowned in your back yard pool. That is awful. That is not what happened in this case.
I am not wondering. I have read many accounts that say George Zimmerman was not on duty. And, that the HOA had already said they didn't want people to be carrying weapons while on duty. So, he was an armed citizen going after a teen w/out any authority that night at all. Even the 911 operator told him to stop following Trayvon. Trayvon was living w/ his father and his father girlfriend. You obviously have some reading to catch up on.
We simply disagree. And, I'm OK with that.
actually he was visiting them if I remember right, but I could be wrong and I think Zimmerman was on duty, but I might be wrong there as well. The fact remains, settlements are made out of court all the time to save money and yes, embarrassment in some cases...
Why do you make that assumption? I don't know what his level of training was but he seemed to handle his weapon just fine given the situation he was in.
I would never put myself in the situation that GZ ended up in that night however If I were put in that situation I would do exactly what GZ did except I would have likely fired a second round just because that's what I train to do. I don't believe Trayvon or George had any kind of hand to hand combat training but I'd bet that both of them have been in fights before just based on their past. Trayvon was seen in a Youtube video participating in some sort of flight club group and GZ was a bouncer in a club. Both of those items make me feel like both of these guys had been in physical confrontations before.
You couldn't be put in a situation like that because you know better than following someone and creating an atmosphere of fear, aggression, and danger. I feel sure that the fact Zimmerman was following Martin is going to be brought out in the trial. Zimmerman has given several different accounts of what happened. I thought Zimmerman said at one point that Martin walked up to his car and was circling the car looking at him. If that happened, why in the world would Zimmerman, a private citizen, get out of his car with a gun in his jacket and follow Martin. I could be very wrong, but I think that the State is going to present evidence showing everything that Zimmerman did from the first moment he called the police/dispatch and the call was recorded. Everything he did and said in its totality is going to be considered by the jury.
I have never understood why someone would want to carry a weapon in their everyday life (law enforcement excluded). What does it prove?
I don't expect or want you to understand, it doesn't matter to me and you're free to do whatever you want to. My self defense weapon doesn't prove anything, I don't carry it to prove anything at all and I'm not looking to impress anyone.
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In actuality, it makes you yourself more dangerous. You take all that training but would you really shoot someone? You state that you would put up a hell of a fight but really? Or is it that you are (consciously or not) looking for a hell of a fight. Of course some people might shoot. And likely that would be their first thought.
I'm not looking for anything but peace and safety. I'm no more dangerous than an old grandmother. If someone put my life or the lives of my family members in danger I'd shoot them in a heartbeat. My family and my home are my priority, as long as you are peaceful towards us you'll never hear a peep out of me.
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I retired from the Army. Did I ever carry a weapon? You bet I did. Do I know how to shoot them and take care of then? Yes and yes, been there done that many times. But there is a time and place for anything. And I never, ever had the desire to carry a weapon in civilian life, Not then, not today.
I also served my time and I support your choice in not carrying a weapon completely.
You couldn't be put in a situation like that because you know better than following someone and creating an atmosphere of fear, aggression, and danger. I feel sure that the fact Zimmerman was following Martin is going to be brought out in the trial. Zimmerman has given several different accounts of what happened. I thought Zimmerman said at one point that Martin walked up to his car and was circling the car looking at him. If that happened, why in the world would Zimmerman, a private citizen, get out of his car with a gun in his jacket and follow Martin. I could be very wrong, but I think that the State is going to present evidence showing everything that Zimmerman did from the first moment he called the police/dispatch and the call was recorded. Everything he did and said in its totality is going to be considered by the jury.
Zimmerman's firearm was in a concealed waistband holster, not in a jacket pocket, that's part of the police evidence report.
You're making a ton of assumptions based on what you believe took place. The trial will determine what actually took place.
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He wasn't out in the parking lot shooting randomly at pedestrians. He didn't fire a shot until he felt his life was in danger.
