Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:09 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,410,637 times
Reputation: 1179

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
The ATM is/was deeply flawed for way more then that. The ATM doesn't tax capital gains to it basically fails as a tax on the rich right there.
And who does it effect? <calling attention to who it does effect>

The tax code is so damn complicated, short term or long term capital gains.

While the AMT is intended to strike super-wealthy taxpayers, it’s often called the stealth tax because it sneaks up on so many unsuspecting people. Indeed, it is by far one of the most dreaded provisions in the tax code. You’re likely to confront the AMT, for example, if you make $100,000 or more a year — or if you make $75,000 and write off such mundane things as state taxes and interest on a home-equity loan. The AMT isn’t about how much you earn, really; it's about making sure that no one has so many deductions and credits he doesn’t pay some tax.

The only deductions allowed under the AMT are for mortgage interest and charitable contributions. So even though the AMT doesn’t look so fierce when you look at its tax rates — 26% and 28%, compared to the 35% top income tax rate for and — more income is taxed, so it always produces a higher tax bill.

Last edited by eRayP; 04-06-2013 at 08:21 PM..

 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:19 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,367,274 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post
And who does it effect? <not disputing, just calling attention to who it does effect>
As I have said time and again. Like most things in the tax code the AMT is unfair to people who have decent to high amounts of ordinary income, particularly in the form of employment income. The tax code tends to nail people like, accountants, doctors, attorneys, and small business owners, and by small business owners I don't mean people like Mitt Romney and Tom Golisana. I mean the person with the small store or the office with 2-10 employees.

Basically the tax code doesn't go after the very poor, working poor, and lower middle class since that is like getting blood out of a stone, and taxing those people would push up wages, they don't go after the very wealthy and or people who have a lot of investment income since those people are/own Congress. As such they go after upper middle class professionals, because they have money and are not part of the club.

Every chance I get I will argue more taxes on unearned income like dividends, capital gains, and particularly on estates and gifts because right now that is the group that doesn't pay their fair share relative to the other people who have money.
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,410,637 times
Reputation: 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
As I have said time and again. Like most things in the tax code the AMT is unfair to people, who have decent to high amounts of ordinary income, particularly in the form of employment income. The tax code tends to nail people like, accountants, doctors, attorneys, and small business owners, and by small business owners I don't mean people like Mitt Romney and Tom Golisana. I mean the person with the small store or the office with 2-10 employees.

Basically the tax code doesn't go after the very poor, working poor, and lower middle class since that is like getting blood out of a stone, and taxing those people would push up wages, they don't go after the very wealthy and or people who have a lot of investment income since those people are/own Congress. As such they go after upper middle class professionals, because they have money and are not part of the club.
Ok that! is my point. This is the same thing Obama is doing now, he is "nailing" people like accountants, doctors, attorneys and small business owners and calling them rich. Obama is after people who have income, not wealth. He is using the poor to do it.

As to your second point. Every time the government tells us they are going after the rich they end up getting the middle class or the upper class. I would think you would know that.

Last edited by eRayP; 04-06-2013 at 08:57 PM..
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,367,274 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post
Ok that! is my point. This is the same thing Obama is doing now, he is "nailing" people like accountants, doctors, attorneys and small business owners and calling them rich. Obama is after income, not wealth. These people are getting screwed from many angles.

As to your second point. Every time the government tells us they are going after the rich they end up getting the middle class or the upper class. I would think you would know that.
I disagree particularly as far as the IRA is concerned. Based on contribution limits I would suspect that people with $3 million plus in their IRA are people like Romney who use the self directed rules as a way to do, currently legal, hanky panky in avoiding taxes on what reasonably should be taxable income.
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:30 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,367,274 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post

As to your second point. Every time the government tells us they are going after the rich they end up getting the middle class or the upper class. I would think you would know that.
Often that is the case. On the flip side when every the right says "oh look at the rates the top earners" are paying they are using the low end top earners to obfuscate the fact that the high end top earners are paying very little relatively speaking. Mitt Romney having a de facto 11-14% rate on millions of dollars did shed some light on to this.
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,410,637 times
Reputation: 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I disagree particularly as far as the IRA is concerned. Based on contribution limits I would suspect that people with $3 million plus in their IRA are people like Romney who use the self directed rules as a way to do, currently legal, hanky panky in avoiding taxes on what reasonably should be taxable income.
Key word that does not work for me. "suspect". It is always responsible people, people who invested well but not rich that get snared into it.

I would rather the government stop worrying about who they can drain next and take a look at what they can do to
1. balance a budget
2. stop wasteful government spending
3. stop cronyism
3. And Obama needs to lay off the green energy investing. He is investing money we don't have and lay off looking at the tax payer to pay for his investment failures. He stinks at it. But then again, his personal investments are doing well.

Last edited by eRayP; 04-06-2013 at 08:54 PM..
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:44 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,410,637 times
Reputation: 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Often that is the case. On the flip side when every the right says "oh look at the rates the top earners" are paying they are using the low end top earners to obfuscate the fact that the high end top earners are paying very little relatively speaking. Mitt Romney having a de facto 11-14% rate on millions of dollars did shed some light on to this.
Everyone is so damn worried about everyone else, especially the people who don't pay a dime in federal taxes.

Obama is a smooth talker who promotes class warfare but anyone who understands what is going on, that there is a difference between income and wealth knows the government drained the middle class dry Obama is going after the next income level up. Yea, take away the ladder because you have it out for the wealthy.

Me, I would rather learn what they are doing and create my own wealth instead of acting like a bunch of crazed zombies blaming everyone else.

Any time the government says "tax the rich" if you earn income you better hold on to your wallets because you are about to get robbed.

Last edited by eRayP; 04-06-2013 at 09:01 PM..
 
Old 04-06-2013, 08:51 PM
 
Location: None of your business
5,466 posts, read 4,410,637 times
Reputation: 1179
Obama is not going after the wealthy but he sure sold it that way and the jealous bought it hook, line and sinker. Obama must be proud of himself for selling that BS so well then again, it was an easy sell, his audiance isn't exactly the most educated in financial matters.
 
Old 04-06-2013, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,829,528 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post
I was not making any claims as far as the middle class are concerned but you refuse to see the point the other cd forum member is trying to make. Go back and read it, really put some thought into it.
I have understood the assertion from the beginning. However neither of you acknowledge that I was just stating a fact. The facts of the situation don't change based on the fairness of the situation.
 
Old 04-06-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,829,528 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post
William, you say you understood what the cd member is saying (above)? To see if we are on the same page, post what your understanding as to his point was.
OMG. Just because it impacts a small percentage of people doesn't make it fair or reasonable, or whatever other adjective you want to use along those lines.

Now, given that most people retire with retirement account balances less than 400k;
will the proposal impact the vast majority of middle class Americans yes or no?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top