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Old 04-08-2013, 01:47 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,802,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
There are plenty of at least somewhat pro-life atheists. The question is always where one draws the line. I doubt, though, that you'll find many atheists who are opposed to all abortion ever. That position seems to be reserved for religious authoritarians. What you will find are people who think, for example, that abortion shouldn't be allowed once there's some neural activity and one might reasonably describe it as something other than a clump of cells.
Having a moral compass does not require belief in imaginary friends who happen to agree with you on everything and hate all the same people you do.

If anything, such beliefs are detrimental. If you only have a moral compass because you think you might get punished, then it is you who have the problem.
I've yet to find a 4,000 year old book of texts telling me what Godless Liberal Utopia is supposed to look like. I wonder why Atheists of millieniums past didn't do what the Christians of old did??? Perhaps you can start writing one now so that in 4,000 years your fellow Godless will have something to lean on? Because today's Atheists apparently are omniscient and have all the answers without the need for something larger than them. The future of your ideology rests on your shoulders. Get to work!
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:58 PM
 
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I'm an atheist, and I'm indifferent regarding abortion. I believe it's a personal issue.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:01 PM
 
6,156 posts, read 4,137,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Stick with the premise.

But you said, it is living if it can physically survive on its own. How does that apply to fetus? For that matter, is there a point when you believe (or, better, know) that fetus can survive on its own and out of its host? That, if you wanted, you could adopt one and raise it?
Dude...

A fetus can survive on its own after a certain point, as was outlined earlier.

Do you have an argument?

Notice that you still won't answer my question.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,830,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Dude...

A fetus can survive on its own after a certain point, as was outlined earlier.

Do you have an argument?
No, just as curious I was about this "argument" the first time around, I still am wondering: how do you define this point at which the fetus is able to physically survive on its own, away from the host. Clue me in.

Quote:
Notice that you still won't answer my question.
When I look for an answer, I don't mind repeating the question (having done that already). Perhaps you should do that. Let me see this question of yours.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,689 posts, read 83,272,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
I'm an atheist, and I'm indifferent regarding abortion. I believe it's a personal issue.
then you are not indifferent, you are totally pro choice because that is what pro choice is: a persons right to choose, a personal issue.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:23 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
I am a pro-life agnostic.

I do support abortion before the neural cells develop though.
When is that usually? I'm not trying to talk about abortion per se but you've got me curious.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:27 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaubound View Post
I struggle with this issue. I am an atheist and pro-choice, but the waters get murkier once you get into the third trimester. I believe with all my heart that if a baby is born alive (regardless of the circumstances, including a late term abortion) that every possible effort should be made to help it live.

I have no charts or facts or figures, and I know that'll pi$$ off a lot of people, but if this child is outside it's mother and it is alive, it is a human being and American citizen, and we should give it every chance to live. That's not from a religous perspective. It's from a human and humanitaran perspective.
It's interesting when it comes to the rights of people. There is a famous retired Episcopal bishop that rejects most things about Christianity but still puts on the garbs. Unfortunately he stared in my church about a million years ago and people just love him.

Anyway, he says that since we've learned how babies are made (egg + sperm) and that wasn't known back then the emasculate conception is bogus. I say if you believe there is a god (and a lot of Chrisitan bishops do) then God can figure out a way if he wants. Not saying what happened or why but saying that from his view learning more about something means we should change our minds.

I was thinking about that with what you are saying. What happens if we learn more? Do we move the date back or maybe even forward? Is the right absolute regardless? From what I'm reading on this thread the answer is somewhat fluid based on a lot of things. It's just requiring things like ultrasounds and stuff could mean rejection for previously held beliefs.

Of course that swings both ways.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:30 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkhunter View Post
Its not about being pro life or pro choice. Its not what you think or want to do for yourself. its about telling others what to do.
But we don't let people take other lives post natal. We tell them not to. Some people believe there is some right that trumps all others as long as the fetus is in the womb. Others think elsewise. All tell others what to do.

I'm trying to avoid hyperbole in hopes this thread can last a few more hours but we don't give unlimited rights to a mother over her child once it is born.

Of course we could just not tell anyone what to do and still have penalties. We can hope they read the statutes and court cases so they know. They'll need to be old enough to read mind you instead of hearing rules from others.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:42 PM
 
9,665 posts, read 8,626,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
When is that usually? I'm not trying to talk about abortion per se but you've got me curious.
3 weeks after conception. In my opinion once the brain starts developing, you're no longer killing a group of cells, you're killing an organism.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:42 PM
 
200 posts, read 222,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Authoritarianism also requires a very personalized definition of facts... ignore all that is inconvenient, push all that is. Perhaps there is such thing as the person who has the ultimate responsibility to make the decision instead of a rule dictated by a mob?
See kids, do whatever the hell you want. Real men and real respectable women murder their babies right? People like you are why there are things like "stress cards" in boot camp now and why kids now act like complete dbags because they don't know the first thing about hard work or responsibility. "Mob mentality." What a friggin joke dude. If there's any "mob mentality," it almost entirely comes from the left. The scary thing to me is people like you have "infiltrated" the public education system and successfully brainwashed and demoralized an entire generation.


and the funny thing to me is the leftists do not have a single set of balls to confront these two MEN to their faces.

50 AFA v 1 Nationalist in Spain (now with annotations) - YouTube


1 Golden Dawn member Vs. 30 Anarchists - 1
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