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Old 05-23-2013, 07:16 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,040,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules View Post
Yep. Government has no profit/loss motive like a private business.

This is what makes them completey inefficient. I doubt there is one government program that pays for itself.
Seem pretty sure about that. If you can coerce others to fund you and then make your own "money" or get another agency to I would say that is one hell of a gig. NM you get to regulate yourself as well.
The United States: A Corporation

Unmasking The CAFR Scam In Every City, USA
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:25 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,040,347 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
I disagree 100 %.

It is the private companies that have relied on the government to bail them out when their greed and mismanagement threatened to take them out, whether it was the automotive industry or financial banking criminals.

Did you know that in the great bailout of the Great Recession, one corporation alone, AIG, got more than $150 billion--more than was spent on welfare to the poor from 1990 to 2006?

(The U.S. federal government spent about $140 billion on TANF between 1990 to 2006.)

Not to mention that even big oil would not be able to function without being able to buy up government land for pennies and exploit and poison our land and skies while they rake in profits. Easy to make billions when you don't have to pay for the mess you create or the people you literally kill with the poisons your company spews into the air and water.

Not to mention that dozens of the biggest corporations pay zero to little corporate taxes because they shelter their profits overseas. Again, easy to make a profit when you're gouging the country of taxes you owe.

You and I and every other taxpayer are subsidizing big companies.
The controlling shareholder is govt. (publicly traded) That should give you an understanding of why they were bailed out.
What is JP Morgan Chase?
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:26 PM
 
10,334 posts, read 8,201,790 times
Reputation: 4551
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Seem pretty sure about that. If you can coerce others to fund you and then make your own "money" or get another agency to I would say that is one hell of a gig. NM you get to regulate yourself as well.
The United States: A Corporation

Unmasking The CAFR Scam In Every City, USA
Yes, like the billions used to bail out failing banks and automotive companies.

Or Americans being forced to buy private health insurance because there's no government option. Profits guaranteed!

Or the way the American taxpayer is forced to subsidize the big oil companies.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:28 PM
 
10,334 posts, read 8,201,790 times
Reputation: 4551
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The controlling shareholder is govt. (publicly traded) That should give you an understanding of why they were bailed out.
What is JP Morgan Chase?
Trading in derivatives does not make you an "owner" of Morgan Stanley or any other financial institution. It's not like holding shares in Morgan Stanley the corporation.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:37 PM
 
805 posts, read 1,032,245 times
Reputation: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanInTheCan View Post
Those fools who work for Government are clueless when it comes to finances.
They are like a desperate house wife addicted to QVC.

Government cannot even run a gambling operation and make it profitable.
Then how do so many states run profitable state lotteries?
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:44 PM
 
805 posts, read 1,032,245 times
Reputation: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu View Post
There's nothing that the Government does better or more efficiently than the private business equivalent. Business uses profit and competition to maximize efficiency -- they have to, otherwise they go out of business (unless the Government meddles to save a company that should have gone bankrupt).

Government agencies have no incentive to operate efficiently, nor do they have any real competition, so it baffles me that there are some who want to put more and more of our lives in the hands of the government. We've seen how horribly the DMV or the court systems operate; we've seen our schools churn out hundreds of thousands of functionally illiterate graduates, we've seen the abysmal failures of the USPS and Amtrak, so who in their right mind thinks the government will run healthcare well, when they've proven to be failures at so many previous ventures?
Actually, I don't think that any of those things operate horribly (though I don't know enough about Amtrak to comment specifically on that entity). The USPS has a mandate, unlike any other organization, to pre-fund their retiree health care plans. Also, they must provide universal service and delivery even to far flung rural areas. These mandates are not something imposed upon privately owned companies. And, 46 cents to deliver a letter from Florida to Alaska is a much better deal than what either UPS or Fedex provide. Their delivery is timely and as a former business owner who used to mail significant number of packages, I can tell you that items mailed from USPS are almost never "lost."
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:02 PM
 
26,480 posts, read 12,923,742 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
What services are you lacking? Do you have roads to your home, clean drinking water, an oil lamp, do you have a out house? Do you burn your garbage?...ect.
I live down a dirt road in a house with a well and I burn my garbage.

Government can never run a business at all since it is incapable of managing itself responsibly.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:19 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,437,274 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
I disagree 100 %.

It is the private companies that have relied on the government to bail them out when their greed and mismanagement threatened to take them out, whether it was the automotive industry or financial banking criminals.

Did you know that in the great bailout of the Great Recession, one corporation alone, AIG, got more than $150 billion--more than was spent on welfare to the poor from 1990 to 2006?

(The U.S. federal government spent about $140 billion on TANF between 1990 to 2006.)

Not to mention that even big oil would not be able to function without being able to buy up government land for pennies and exploit and poison our land and skies while they rake in profits. Easy to make billions when you don't have to pay for the mess you create or the people you literally kill with the poisons your company spews into the air and water.

Not to mention that dozens of the biggest corporations pay zero to little corporate taxes because they shelter their profits overseas. Again, easy to make a profit when you're gouging the country of taxes you owe.

You and I and every other taxpayer are subsidizing big companies.

Everything you say here is true; government is corrupt by nature, and is basically owned by special interest which uses government to exploit taxpayers and to steal the wealth of the country.

This is exactly why government needs to be decentralized and its involvement in the lives of free citizens kept to an absolute minimum. Government never works in the interest of the people except as a collateral consequence to lining the pockets of the wealthy. When you cut government, you limit the power of the wealthy that use it as a tool to exploit the people.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:26 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,363,800 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Everything you say here is true; government is corrupt by nature, and is basically owned by special interest which uses government to exploit taxpayers and to steal the wealth of the country.

This is exactly why government needs to be decentralized and its involvement in the lives of free citizens kept to an absolute minimum. Government never works in the interest of the people except as a collateral consequence to lining the pockets of the wealthy. When you cut government, you limit the power of the wealthy that use it as a tool to exploit the people.
No No No-- Progressives say we need a more powerful Government to stop the wealthy from siphoning the wealth into their pockets. They must be on to something. Give the welathy elites more power so say the authoritarian progressives!
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:08 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,040,347 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Trading in derivatives does not make you an "owner" of Morgan Stanley or any other financial institution. It's not like holding shares in Morgan Stanley the corporation.
Controlling shareholder is controlling shareholder. You didn't look further down at the shares. Only the derivative mention.

What is JP Morgan Chase?

When you own more shares of stock you have greater say-so. Proxy voting comes into play. I suggest you actually read some of these CAFR reports and see what is stated.

Last edited by CDusr; 05-24-2013 at 01:19 PM..
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