This is the real problem with healthcare and Obamacare (lawyer, Canada, military)
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"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)
Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent.-- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)
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Mortality on the waiting list for coronary artery bypass grafting: incidence and risk factors
BACKGROUND: Insufficient capacity for coronary artery bypass grafting results in waiting times before operation, prioritization of patients and, ultimately, death on the waiting list. We aimed to calculate waiting list mortality and to identify risk factors for death on the waiting list.
If health care is "cheaper" in Europe, then why do people in Sweden die on waiting lists for procedures that Americans get within days?
The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study
However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time.
Interpretation: Patients awaiting cardiac catheterization may experience major adverse events, such as death, myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure, which may be preventable. Our findings provide a benchmark by which to measure the effect of increased capacity and prioritization schemes that allow earlier access for patients at higher risk, such as those with aortic stenosis and reduced left ventricular function.
If health care is "cheaper" in Canada, then why do people die on waiting lists?
Lung cancer treatment waiting times and tumour growth.
Therefore, 21% of potentially curable patients became incurable on the waiting list.
The delay between the first hospital visit and starting treatment was 35-187 days (median 94);
Limited access to specialists is the reason most often advanced for the poor performance of the UK in treating lung cancer. This study demonstrates that, even for the select minority of patients who have specialist referral and are deemed suitable for potentially curative treatment, the outcome is prejudiced by waiting times that allow tumour progression.
If health care is cheaper in Britain, then why do people die on waiting lists?
Apology accepted.....
Mircea
Yes, it's one of the propaganda mechanisms employed.
True.
Health care metrics are different for every State.
For example, the OECD does not include the health care costs related to elective cosmetic procedures, for European States, but does include them for the US, to make the cost of health care in the US appear inflated.
Correct again. There are cultural differences for which no health care system can ever account.
However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time.
Interpretation: Patients awaiting cardiac catheterization may experience major adverse events, such as death, myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure, which may be preventable. Our findings provide a benchmark by which to measure the effect of increased capacity and prioritization schemes that allow earlier access for patients at higher risk, such as those with aortic stenosis and reduced left ventricular function.
And that proves that something is terribly, terribly wrong in Canada.
If health care in Canada truly was cheaper than health care in the US, then no Canadian would ever die waiting for a procedure that an American would get within a matter of hours or days.
Delay, Denial and Dilution: The Impact of NHS Rationing on Heart Disease and Cancer
IEA Health and Welfare Unit (London)
12% of kidney specialists in the UK said they had refused to treat patients due to limited resources (same source).
One study showed that patients accepted for dialysis stacked up this way.....
65 patients per million population UK
98 patients per million population in Canada
212 patients per million population in the US
If health care were truly less expensive in Canada and Britain, then Canada and Britain would have the same number of patients per million population on dialysis as the US....
.....the fact that is not true means health care in Canada and Britain is not cheaper.
Good luck refuting Realityâ„¢...
Mircea
How about posting the authors of your sources?
Or how about posting links going to your sources?
Actually the UK system beats the US one on every public health measure. Infant mortality, lifespan, years spent in good health, maternal mortality, years lost to ill health, amendable mortality, under-5 mortality, disability-adjusted lifespan, the lot.
The US system scores in the low 30s out of 40 developed nations. And the US taxpayer pay more for government healthcare than all but 3 nations.
repeating the spin from the WHO
yes we are 30 something...37 according tothe WHO
WHO's lifespan (life expectancy) has been debunked a dozen times
the usa ranked 36. a LE of 78.8
the highest is japan at 82.6
the difference between us and france ....1.6 year
the difference between us and canada.....1.6 year
the difference between us and germany...a HALF a year
the differnce between us and the untied kingdom...4 months
life expectance is more about genetics and life style, than health care
we have a longer life expectancy than them as a whole
the number one place for life expectancy of asian women....USA
not to mention that life expectancy is more about genetics and LIFE STYLES (ie hamhocks, fried twinkies, and fried chicken, mcdonalds, fatbacks certainly dont help)
most other places..they walk/bike
most other places dont have 4 tv's to a house
posting about life expectancy..means actually very little to medicine
difference between us and the highest is....3.3 years ...is that realivily low (79yrs-82yrs)
and the reason...
is not health care
its....
LIFE STYLE (especially EATING, and EXERCISE), and democraphics (ethnics)
demographics, to include eating habits, GENES, TEEN PREGNANCIES, traffic, cancer, etc..ALL effect those numbers
yes I said traffic accidents....you think that the 2x amount of traffic accidents (of the world) is NOT going to lower the top level???
btw
asians have the HIGHEST life span...and FEMALE ASIAN AMERICANS have the highest life expectancy IN THE WORLD
its demographics
if you compared country "A" to country "B"...and said "A" has an average age of 38..and "B" has an average age of 51...which country do you think would be more PRODUCTIVE and HEALTHY
its the demographics
its like the life expectancy list
the USa has an AVERAGE life expectacny of 78.9 (number 30 something on the list)
but if you break it down further
in the USA, the asian american female has a life expectancy of 86(the HIGHEST in the WORLD)(((higher than the 82 in the actual country of japan)))
..whites are around 83...hispanics around 76...and blacks have a LOW LIFE expectacy around 66m/68f....giving us the AVERAGE of 78.9.....if you took the (12-15% population) of blacks of that list..we would have one of the top three life expectancies in the world....
demographic plays BIG ROLES
funny japan is higher than any of the european countries...in life expectancy..and the 3rd lowest in infant mortality....connected...hmmmmm....certainly genetic
we also have the HIGHEST teen pregnancy ...which leads to low baby weight, and high infant mortality.....and the hightest DEMOGRAPHIC with teen pregancies...the african americans (especially southern AA)
life expectancy is not about health care.. but about healthy living.....too bad the liberhaddists dont understand that
As much as I favor a UCH, that is not true. The US does much better in cancer survival rates, and some other indicators as well, none of which I feel like looking up right now. That "score" was a great example of "how to lie with statistics". The US has one of the lowest smoking rates in the developed world, yet we have the second highest rate of death from lung disease? I don't think so!
Cancer is not a public health measure.
Norway does pretty good on saving people buried in avalances. Rwanda has few people dying to skin cancer. Public health, or the efficiency of health care systems are not measured on performace against a single disease or condition. Public healt measures are large overarching issues where national performance on individual diseases average out.
The US performace is not based on a single score. If you score lifespan, infant mortality, years lost to ill health, maternal mortality, years lived in good health, amendable mortality etc, the US socres in the low 30s on all of them. So saying the US socres in the low 30s on performance is pretty safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
I see you're still riding the Fail-Boat.
Posting debunked graphs.
Mircea
You've had your nose repeatedly rubbed in the fact that your graphs are not only wrong, the authors never intended them to be right. You're a liar, a chaet, and either take sexual pleasure from unneccessary deaths, or get paid for supporing a system that causes it.
Why was the emergency room your only option. medicare is taken a walk-in care clinics. ER care is expensive.
Our co-oay is only $65...as I said. My mother collapsed in the bathroom...we called the rescue squad...they helped us put her in our car but, I wasn't going to start driving around looking for a walk in clinic open late at night.
Norway does pretty good on saving people buried in avalances. Rwanda has few people dying to skin cancer. Public health, or the efficiency of health care systems are not measured on performace against a single disease or condition. Public healt measures are large overarching issues where national performance on individual diseases average out.
The US performace is not based on a single score. If you score lifespan, infant mortality, years lost to ill health, maternal mortality, years lived in good health, amendable mortality etc, the US socres in the low 30s on all of them. So saying the US socres in the low 30s on performance is pretty safe.
You've had your nose repeatedly rubbed in the fact that your graphs are not only wrong, the authors never intended them to be right. You're a liar, a chaet, and either take sexual pleasure from unneccessary deaths, or get paid for supporing a system that causes it.
Either way, reported for deliberate falsehoods.
To say that cancer is not a public health issue is patently false. Cancer due to smoking is a HUGE public health issue, as is melanoma due to sun exposure, cervical cancer due to not getting pap smears, access to mammograms and colonoscopies, etc.
There is no way the US can have the second highest rate of deaths from lung disease in the world, with one of the lower smoking rates. Those statistics were juked. You do know that this data is taken at least in part from death certificates, and is very dependent on what "cause of death" is on said death cert.
No, I got rid of their medigap coverage a couple of years ago...the monthly premium was approaching $500. I switched them to a Medicare advantage plan with a zero premium...it's saved them several $1,000 er year.
What do you have against doctors, anesthesiologists, and nurses ??
What do you have against expensive modern day hospital equipment ??
That money pays the doctors and nurses, and it pays for multi-million dollar hospital equipment.
If you want someone to bash, then bash the drug company CEO's. Those CEO's sell pills for $10.00 each (when the pills cost .2 cents to make.)
Or bash the insurance company CEO's.
But republicans never bash CEO's, they bash the workers.
Yep...they're a huge part of the problem but, that's another story. My point was that if the hospitals and doctors received Medicare rates from every patient, they wouldn't be able to stay in business. I'm not complaining about the original bill of $5,000, I'm complaining that it got reduced by 90%...that's too much.
Since my mom is 91, she's on Medicare and how much did Medicare pay?......10%. Obamacare will be paying the same rates as Medicare pays....as bad as $5,000 is, paying only $500 is just as ridiculous. This is why more and more doctors are dropping out of Medicare.
The problem here isn't even "the cost of care" per say.
It doesn't actually cost $5,000 to do a few tests and write a prescription for your mom. What costs $5,000 is to do all those things in addition to doing them for 20 non-paying illegals.
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