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Does anyone else find it baffling or have a problem with gay people trying to compare the struggles of black people to their own? I saw this stupid ass comment on another website,posted by someone who supports LBGT.
I think some falsely believe that being black is being different, when in reality, blacks are actually the majority in terms of the global population, after Asians (and many Asians outside of China and Japan) are dark as well.
Whites are actually the minority in terms of the global population. So one can not equate being different, with being black. We have to understand that the U.S. population accounts for a very small number of the overall population, so although black Americans are a minority, black people in general are not.
Also, there is much evidence that Moses and many of the original people on earth, were not white. I think some gay people falsely equate the normal prototype as white heterosexual males, but in truth, white males are a minority interms of the global population. The "norm" in terms of the global population is actually "dark/black heterosexual males."
Because the opposition arguments used to deny blacks their (first) freedom and then (second) their rights, are eerily similar to the kinds of arguments used against gay people and gay rights.
1) Appeal to inferiority/superiority based on innate characteristics -- (Blacks/Gays inferior for this or that reason).
2) Appeal to Biblical condemnation -- (Blacks are disfavored because of the curse of Ham, segregation is OK because of the Tower of Babel, slavery is not proscribed in the Bible... Leviticus says gays are bad)
3) Appeal to bad legal analysis -- (Blacks and whites have the same rights... whites have their fountains, blacks theirs... whites and blacks are equally denied the right to marry outside their race... gays can marry someone of the opposite sex if they'd like, gays should settle for a separate but equal ).
4) Appeal to sexual deviancy -- (We need to keep our white women safe from blacks... we need to keep our kids safe from gays).
On and on and on and on.
Civil Rights efforts always refer to other struggles going on concurrently or in the past, in the hopes that by analogizing the struggles they can show people how the opposition is nothing new under the sun.
Slave abolitionists in America routinely compared black slavery to the plight of the Jews in Egypt, when clearly the situations are not entirely the same at all. But the public UNDERSTOOD that story better.
If people want avoid the comparisons, how about coming up with original reasons to be against gays?
No. Black people had to fight and protest on the streets to be considered as much a citizen as a white person. Same here. Gay people have to fight and protest on the streets to be considered as much a citizen as a straight person. Meaning being granted the same rights that a white/straight person would have.
More than anything, I have issue with the religious argument, God this and God that. What about the people that don't believe in God? I don't. I don't think that my rights should be limited because others believe what's written in a book.
Since there are so many articles being written about this issue in recent weeks, I've seen all sorts of comments online. The ignorance and lack of logical reasoning in some people is baffling. I think using black people as an example is a way to possibly get these narrow minded bible thumpers to see it from a different light.
• I believe all Americans who believe in freedom, tolerance and human rights have a responsibility to oppose bigotry and prejudice based on sexual orientation.
• I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
• I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.
• We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community.
• Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.
• Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.
Maybe I should ask my black gay friends what they think.
Maybe because the same arguments are being used against both groups.
Quote:
Here are four of the arguments they used:
1) First, judges claimed that marriage belonged under the control of the states rather than the federal government.
2) Second, they began to define and label all interracial relationships (even longstanding, deeply committed ones) as illicit sex rather than marriage.
3) Third, they insisted that interracial marriage was contrary to God's will, and
4) Fourth, they declared, over and over again, that interracial marriage was somehow "unnatural."
On this fourth point--the supposed "unnaturality" of interracial marriage--judges formed a virtual chorus. Here, for example, is the declaration that the Supreme Court of Virginia used to invalidate a marriage between a black man and a white woman in 1878:
The purity of public morals," the court declared, "the moral and physical development of both races….require that they should be kept distinct and separate… that connections and alliances so unnatural that God and nature seem to forbid them, should be prohibited by positive law, and be subject to no evasion.
The fifth, and final, argument judges would use to justify miscegenation law was undoubtedly the most important; it used these claims that interracial marriage was unnatural and immoral to find a way around the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of "equal protection under the laws." How did judges do this? They insisted that because miscegenation laws punished both the black and white partners to an interracial marriage, they affected blacks and whites "equally." This argument, which is usually called the equal application claim, was hammered out in state supreme courts in the late 1870s, endorsed by the United States Supreme Court in 1882, and would be repeated by judges for the next 85 years.
Does anyone else find it baffling or have a problem with gay people trying to compare the struggles of black people to their own? I saw this stupid ass comment on another website,posted by someone who supports LBGT.
The black community pioneeered this fight, via things like fighting for anti-disrcimination protection and things like "Black Pride" (which was a sort of social uplift and self esteem movement as much as a political one), and other groups who suffered discrimnation followed their lead.
So, the puzzling thing is why people are PO'd that its the gays doing this vs, say, the Chicanos/Latinos, Feminists/womens rights activists, disability rights, etc.
If imitation was the sincerist form of flattery Blacks should be honored that others are basing their struggles on the black struggle, as pioneers in a generalized struggle against discrimination and prejudice.
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That being said the form of discrimination and the rationalization behind it...racism compared to homophobia...are different, and the dynamics are different, esp since you can see who's black so easier to discriminate.
The analogy is better with antisemitism. The hostility towards gays is alot like to the old hostility toward the Jews in a number of ways:
1. Religous/Scriptural basis for the prejudice
2. Both groups were seen as a threat to society in various ways (sometimes as predatory towards children...blood libel for the Jews and Gay=Molester for the gays)
3. The enemey cant be readily identified (vs skin color)(jews/gays look like everyone else
4. In worst cases the enemy has no place in soceity and be forced to convert (jews forced to convert to gentiles, gays forced to become straight..via therapy)
Before people freak out about this there have been some scholary works discussing these parallels & intersections...like this one:
Does anyone else find it baffling or have a problem with gay people trying to compare the struggles of black people to their own? I saw this stupid ass comment on another website,posted by someone who supports LBGT.
How about straight men? Such as Civil Rights hero John Lewis, one of the original Freedom Riders (and an African-American) who has drawn the same analogy himself. I suppose you have a problem with him, too.
I guess I'll let a man who was repeatedly beaten in the cause of Civil Rights, who was jailed, who had the police unleash dogs on him, make that call.
But white people should not use their plight, with ours as black people. It makes seem even as black people, we cannot even get the rights of our struggle without white people taking it for their own gain.I really wish someone who is black, and feel the same way I do would answer this discussion.
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