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Old 04-26-2013, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,938,839 times
Reputation: 6128

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Then why won't you tell us what you are gonna do about this lockdown that violated your rights, seeing you have a history with the law.
I have a history with the law through no fault of my own.

Cops regularly harass people who walk on the street on a daily basis.

My only "crime" has been being a white man on foot or bike in Hispanic neighborhoods.

Why don't you tell me what you think I should "do about the lockdown".

I am already doing something about it - informing people of their rights under the constitution and denouncing the lockdown as wrong.

Why don't YOU answer the question that I have asked now three times?

"Why do you think that the Boston cops actions were constitutional"?

 
Old 04-26-2013, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,198 posts, read 23,608,007 times
Reputation: 38539
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So in other words, you will do nothing about it besides whine in a random forum site, got it.
While that may be your SOP, it is not mine. You sit here and laugh hysterically while your constitutional rights get stripped away, some of us will indeed be "doing something about it". At least we are trying to maintain some of our freedoms which is a lot more than I can say for some who sit on the internet all day and night and mock the Constitution.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,938,839 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I do not have an answer to that question as I have already stated, but you can speculate all you want about what would of happened.
Maybe you an answer to these two injustices commtted by your hero cops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowgates View Post
Looking through some old files at home I found my subpoena for the inquest into the death of Ernest Lacy. I kept it all these years as a reminder of a very sad and low point in Milwaukee race relations. I testified at the inquest which received coverage that made national news. Ernest worked for me when I managed the Riverside Theater in downtown Milwaukee during its last legs as a movie theater. Ernest never posed a threat to anyone. The most harmless person I’ve met, very slight build to the point of being frail. As many of the posts made clear, he was a very passive person – almost childlike in his demeanor, at times a seemingly lost soul. True he did have psychological issues and it was my understanding that he battled with drug problems but seemed to be getting his life in order according to his father who also worked at the Riverside as a security guard. Ernest was soft spoken, nervous and did blink a lot. The schizophrenia impacted how he lived and related to others. New people and unfamiliar situations seemed to tax this condition. It was difficult to find a steady job for him at the Riverside because of this. He tended to wander away from the door as a ticket taker and the same with other jobs so he ended up doing minor maintenance work. On one occasion I had him clean the tunnels under the auditorium floor. Popcorn and cups would find their way through the floor vents and so periodically had to be swept. The tunnels were large and well lit but tapered in height as one got closer to the stage. I recall getting him started on the job and he seemed fine. When I checked back an hour later he was frozen in fear and had not moved from the spot where I left him. That is the kind of fear and panic he must have gone through leading up to his death in the back of the paddy wagon. I told this story in my testimony.

Comments posted insinuating that Ernest was in fact the rapist are totally unfounded. Whether anyone was ever found guilty for this crime? I don’t recall. But pointing to Ernest by default is unfair. A conclusion that he was opportunistic because he made a statement to the effect, “they haven’t put no money in my pocket” is taken way out of context. Unless you worked and lived in the inner city and downtown during this time you don’t understand the kind of anger and frustration that was common among many young blacks. Times were changing but not fast enough and certainly not with MPD. Their way of dealing with minorities was all too often deplorable. In my opinion some of the blame to the ills that still hamper the inner city and mistrust of police can be placed on the Brier regime. I recall he made some kind of statement that he knew how to keep his blacks in line. That certainly sums it up, a racist with a stronghold on the community and one that no one dared to challenge.

The Ernest Lacy death was a touchy subject in my family. Many of my in-laws were fine MPD officers including one that later became a suburban police chief. The rank and file always strongly supported the chief and did not want to hear about police misdeeds and excessive force. The Brier control was hard to shake. I recall the open housing marches by Father Groppi in the turbulent 60s. I was in the middle of one that broke into violence on Lincoln Av as the marchers passed Kosciusko Park and were attacked by a mob of neighbors. I was in grade school at the time and with my father visiting relatives in two nearby neighborhoods and happen to cross paths with the marchers at an intersection. Police were tossing tear gas that scattered marchers. At the time I couldn’t understand the need for this response nor do I now. My parent’s home was on a quiet street, Drury Lane near St. Luke’s Hospital. Congressman Zablocki was our neighbor so at times in the summer the neighborhood was under police lockdown when buses of protestors arrived for planned assemblies. Oddly, the congressman was always in DC during these gatherings. I was surprised how neighbors changed when racial fear and panic set in.

I witnessed firsthand the unfounded brutality by MPD at another theater I managed in the late 1970s just prior to Ernest’s death. The Uptown Theater on the North side at 49th and North, 49th & Lisbon was another of the old time movie palaces barely staying afloat. By this time we had found alternative uses for it like concerts (famous Springsteen bomb threat concert held there and Tom Petty just as he made it big) plus late night movies promoted through a radio station. The Fri/Sat late night movies drew large crowds of teens and young adults. At times all 1800 seats were full to take in a Monty Python or rock concert film. We had very few problems with the crowd (unlike the rash of problems at the AMC Theater at Mayfair in recent years). Patrons were patted down by hired security at the door just like a concert. Beat officers routinely stopped by to check if we had any problems and then helped themselves to the booty (confiscated beer and the like). After each late show we patrolled the area streets for any trash left behind to keep the neighbors happy. At the time drinking was legal at age 18 and this was our primary concern with patrons although we rarely had problems. Neighbors were long used to a dying theater and did not welcome the revived business even though the Uptown was licensed as a theater since 1926. Neighbors complained to their alderman and the alderman to the police and finally it went all the way to the chief. We had some hints that something was brewing when a ranking officer visited the theater one night and made vague threats. They became true at one autumn late show. On that night we were aware of undercover officers acting like thugs in the alleys and parking lot, making numerous arrests and roughing up movie goers before they entered. Just as the film began squad cars jumped the curb at the box office blocking the entrance. Paddy wagons blocked side exits. A riot line of officers with helmets, shields and sticks charged the lobby forming a riot line that proceeded down the aisles of the auditorium. The promoter questioned the officers as they entered and they proceeded to smash him headfirst through two sets of glass doors and then continued the beating in a wagon. His mother, in her 60s, ran to my office but was grabbed by her long hair and had her head pinned against the top of the desk. The officers threatened to do the same to me unless I stopped the movie and turned on the house lights. I complied. When the lights came on they found about 900 sleepy customers watching Led Zeppelin’s The Song Remains the Same. They soon realized they did not have enough paddy wagons so then focused on an inspection of the theater premises with the half dozen city inspectors they brought along. I knew these men and they apologized on the way out. They were forced to come out late to find reasons to shut us down. They found no infractions which further frustrated the police. Eventually they left and the film continued. In my opinion they are fortunate to not have created a riot, although I suspect that is what they wanted. A shell game was played trying to locate the holding area of the many who were arrested. None were ever charged in court. The only arrest inside was of a young patron who was pulled out of the auditorium in cuffs for smoking – a cigarette. The ordinance banning smoking in public places of assembly had not been enforced since the early 1950s. His girlfriend, in tears, followed in panic in the lobby. When he tried to tell her to calm down an officer beat him continuously in the head with a black jack (sap/ “short slugger”). I was less than 8 feet away and the sound was like a hammer hitting the tile floor. This was the type of beating going on outside and in the wagons.

The whole matter made the front page of the news but of course painted pro MPD. Eventually it went to Federal Court in Milwaukee and was heard by Judge Reynolds. I testified along with other employees and victims. I recall during the recesses hatred in the eyes of the undercover thugs (now dressed sharply in suits) as they regularly glanced at us and our attorneys. We were told by one attorney that these officers were well known for this type of excess. The slap in the face came with Reynold’s ruling that the police action was illegal and that an illegal search took place. After admonishing this police action punitive damages of $1 were awarded. At the trial we learned that Brier called the shots and gave the green light to a combined police effort by headquarters and 2 or 3 precincts. They even had a communication van set up at Uptown Foods to coordinate all units.

I later attended and testified at the fire and police commission hearing for the officer who beat the patron for smoking a cigarette. I recall Franklyn Gimbel sat on or chaired the commission. I had the officer’s black jack in my suit pocket but for some reason never brought it out, still have it somewhere. He dropped it during the fury of the beating. He was suspended for 3 days without pay and I recall he was nearly in tears telling his attorney that he will never make sergeant. I thought, thank God. Who would want him supervising other officers? A couple of years ago I ran into the kid, now with gray hair, who took the severe beating in the lobby. He mentioned that he filed a civil lawsuit against MPD and took an out of court settlement, the first time MPD ever lost in court.

There is some irony to this story. Ultimately the late shows stopped. MPD put enough fear into patrons that they stayed away. Imagine today in these very violent times if that many teens like at the Uptown gathered at one place late at night? Certainly someone would be beaten, stabbed or shot. Back then it was totally safe but not to the liking of the authorities so they put an end to it. The old theater was razed and a new police precinct was built on the site.

So, if anyone tries to say that MPD was not at fault in the death of Ernest Lacey I call that complete rubbish. Their method of choke restraint has been criticized for many years as improper technique but I recall reading that it is still in use. And for the fans of COPS, the show is simply that – a show, staged and sanitized to always paint a picture of police always in the right. If anything positive came out of his death then it was the beginning of the end of the Brier way of policing. I know police work is demanding and often a thankless job. Most officers are decent and do their job very well but I will never change my opinion that there are far too many out there that don’t belong in this line of work due to dishonesty and brutality.

My experiences have also made me skeptical of the media which all too often reports what they want to report and not the facts. Be wary of what you have read about Terry Cullen, the reptile expert who has been charged with sexual assault, mistreatment of animals and harboring endangered animals. All news has been very one-sided and clearly fed by the police and authorities. I knew Terry very well many years ago and everything written about him is extremely out of character and frankly very unbelievable. Terry ran an efficient and well respected security company that he started in the 1970s with the advent of rock concerts in the metro area. He handled security for concerts at the Uptown, Riverside, Oriental, Alpine Valley, the old Arena to name a few and was always very professional, respectful and completely honest. I hope he gets a fair trial with the truth coming to light. Unfortunately success in the courtroom depends on the quality of representation – and that costs big money. I hope his results are better than what I observed with Ernest Lacy and the Uptown raid.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=16298820

Quote:
Milwaukee has always been a city that has been very tough on crime, with the police conduct bordering on excessive or extreme at times. Many don't remember Ernest Lacy. Ernest went to school with me and attended Washington High for a year in 1976. We sat together in homeroom and I still can remember him sitting in the back next to me refusing to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. He would say, "they haven't put no money in my pocket." Last time I saw Ernest, we talked for a bit, and he told me to "keep my chin up." Ernest blinked a lot and had some psychological and mental problems, including acute schizophrenia. That was the last time I would see him alive though.

On June 9th, 1981, I was staying with my girl who had an apartment on 24th and Wells. There was a market (7-Eleven) on the corner of 24th and Wisconsin Ave. I had actually left and was on my way to the market when I heard sirens up ahead on Wisconsin Ave. When I got there, I was told that some guy had been taken in by the cops and thrown in the paddy wagon. That was Ernest I would later find out. Ernest Lacy had been on his way to the market to get some snacks while taking a break for painting an apartment. He was just walking on Wisconsin Ave when he was approached by 3 burly officers who were looking for a black man who had just committed a rape in the neighborhood. It could've been me they stopped but they got to Ernest first. They confronted Ernest who because of his personality and mental disorders was no doubt in great fear of these three men converging on him in that manner. Ernest wasn't that big and certainly posed no physical threat to these three big overweight officers. Ernest might've made a move to escape according to some witnesses and the officers prevented him from doing so. The more he struggled, the more they did to subdue him. According to some witnesses, Ernest was pinned to the street; one patrolman reportedly placed his knee against Ernest's neck, handcuffed his arms behind his back and raised them high above his head. Later, in the paddy wagon, another arrested man noticed that Lacy had stopped breathing.

Police eventually charged someone else with the rape.

The coroner's jury of three blacks and three whites spent a month listening to many witnesses. The cause of death, the jurors concluded, was an interruption of the oxygen flow to Ernest's brain due to pressure applied to his chest and to a nerve in his neck. It was then recommended that the three men who arrested Lacy be prosecuted for "homicide by reckless conduct," and that one of them, plus two officers who were in the paddy wagon, be tried for "misconduct in public office and failure to aid a prisoner in their custody."

The police chief at the time was Harold Brier, who many felt was an incredible racist, a brutal man with a calloused demeanor. He was very confrontational and had utter disdain for black suspects and women. He called the jury's report "a terrible miscarriage of justice" and warned that it would damage morale on the force.

In 1983, the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission found five officers guilty of failing to render first aid to Ernest Lacy. Hard to believe 26 years have passed.
Remembering Ernest Lacy

Last edited by Harrier; 04-27-2013 at 12:13 AM..
 
Old 04-27-2013, 12:15 AM
 
2,151 posts, read 3,358,450 times
Reputation: 2620
My two cents:

1) Anyone can edit footage to make it look scary, have it fit within a certain ideological perspective, and post it to YouTube claiming to be the absolute truth. There is an irony with those who complain about the general public being brainwashed yet blindly follow whatever crackpot theory is dreamed up by someone on the other end of a keyboard.

2) If the black helicopter crowd really had an interest in "warning" the rest of us, it might be a tad more effective to remove oneself from the anonymity (read: safety from public scrutiny) of the internet and go out in public to spread your message.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,670,325 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
[/b]


They were going door to door looking for the suspect. Did the swat team point their guns at homeowners....no. They were trying to protect them.
No, they were there to find the suspect. You obviously have not watched the video.


Quote:
What if the suspect was holding a family hostage and said if you tell anyone I am here I will kill you and your family. So should the police just knock on their door and ask if they saw anything suspicious.
Yes, that's what they are required to do by law.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,670,325 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
God bless him. He was doing his job trying to find the suspect. Did he shoot at the person in the window....no. We should commend him for his service and diligence.
He was not trying to find the suspect. Watch the video. They were shouting at the homeowners to stay away from their windows. He was intimidating citizens and should be arrested and charged with criminal assault.

You can't point a gun at an innocent person in their own house unless you are above the law.

The photograph should be used as evidence in the prosecution of these "gestapo like" criminals.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,063,511 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
I have a history with the law through no fault of my own.

Cops regularly harass people who walk on the street on a daily basis.

My only "crime" has been being a white man on foot or bike in Hispanic neighborhoods.

Why don't you tell me what you think I should "do about the lockdown".

I am already doing something about it - informing people of their rights under the constitution and denouncing the lockdown as wrong.

Why don't YOU answer the question that I have asked now three times?

"Why do you think that the Boston cops actions were constitutional"?
Interesting, I am a white man and I have never been harassed by cops in any neighborhood I have been in, you must try and look like a thug.

Well I know you would do what you were told if you were at the lockdown, though you would probably sit online and whine about it. Which posting online isn't actually doing anything because no body cares what you say online, heck I am still waiting for those that wanted a Civil War in this country to actually do something other than post online.

As for the police, I am happy they took necessary steps to make sure people were safe and did everything they could to catch theseterrorists before they could kill again.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 07:51 AM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,942 posts, read 10,226,672 times
Reputation: 6476
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
It has been quite nice around here since they took the trash out.
Yup - I don't miss roysoldboy at all, or Steve McGarrett or his many puppets, or RebelYell, or Zombie, or Cocker_Spaniel_Lover/Sam_Green_50/Riverboat Gambler (although he's already back under a new name).

Lots of trash - GONE.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,288 posts, read 20,670,325 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Maybe you should inform the families of those people who were killed that you prefer your freedom over the lives that were lost. Heck, while you are at it swing by the hospital and say that to the people who were injured.

I would be glad to explain the concept of freedom and liberty to them.

Maybe you should explain to 320 million Americans why freedom and liberty are not important to you and how you would prefer that they not have freedom so that a few people can avoid injury.

Maybe you should teach your kids that Patrick Henry was a fool for saying "Give me liberty or give me death" 240 years ago.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,063,511 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
While that may be your SOP, it is not mine. You sit here and laugh hysterically while your constitutional rights get stripped away, some of us will indeed be "doing something about it". At least we are trying to maintain some of our freedoms which is a lot more than I can say for some who sit on the internet all day and night and mock the Constitution.
So what are you actually doing besides sitting online and posting comments on a forum site. I would really like to hear this because I don't see any real action happening in the real world.
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