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Old 05-14-2013, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,807,657 times
Reputation: 2527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Some of the comments from right-wingers on this issue make me wonder whether myopic selfishness rides hand-and-hand with a penchant for outrageous violence against those who hold opposing perspectives. Is there any hope that right-wingers can be brought around to a moral, mature, responsible form of participation in government, or is it their intention to practice distinctly antisocial behaviors when they don't get their way imposing their antisocial policies on the nation?
Wel done on an articulate, Verbose Garrulous worthless opnion that has nothing to do with reality
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:49 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,907 posts, read 8,620,750 times
Reputation: 8374
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Wel done on an articulate, Verbose Garrulous worthless opnion that has nothing to do with reality
Meanwhile, you posted a poorly-constructed, vacuous attempt to distract attention away from a strong point that you didn't like, but didn't have a cogent rebuttal for.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:11 AM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,252,383 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
So we live with that reality and move forward trying to achieve the best we can for those who need the most assistance, regardless. We don't use that limitation as an excuse for engaging in self-serving opportunism, as the most vocal opponents of ACA would have us do.
It's a complete mess. There is no working it. Even the (D)'s are running from it. The administration had the opportunity to actually do health care right and they completely screwed it up by putting it in the hands of Pelosi and Reid who as we saw, simply were not up to the task.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:13 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,907 posts, read 8,620,750 times
Reputation: 8374
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's a complete mess. There is no working it.
Incorrect. Even in a mess, we can still make the best of the situation and do the best for those struggling the most.

Defeatism is simply a right-wing reactionary tactic, trying to rewrite history to feed their own avarice. Don't fall for their nonsense.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:17 AM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,252,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Incorrect. Even in a mess, we can still make the best of the situation and do the best for those struggling the most.

Defeatism is simply a right-wing reactionary tactic, trying to rewrite history to feed their own avarice. Don't fall for their nonsense.
Maybe if we didn't have still have those in Congress that created the mess in the first place. It's not defeatist to note that those who created the mess are unlikely to be the ones to fix it. It's just noting the obvious.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,907 posts, read 8,620,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Maybe if we didn't have still have those in Congress that created the mess in the first place.
Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't mean that giving up, or giving in to the obstructionism is justifiable.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:24 AM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,252,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't mean that giving up, or giving in to the obstructionism is justifiable.
When you total your car there will be a few that will have it rebuilt but for the most part the best bet is to get a new car.

Especially in the case of Obamacare when it's going to cost you many times over to fix the mess. In the end though the biggest problem is that we will continue voting for those who show over and over that they are not up to the task.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
10,501 posts, read 4,377,439 times
Reputation: 4629
I see Obama Care working as my rate for 2 has stabilised.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:32 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,907 posts, read 8,620,750 times
Reputation: 8374
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
When you total your car ...
The car isn't totaled. It is important when considering a matter, like the healthcare system in our country, to not castrate yourself by adopting an indefensibly prejudicial appraisal toward the status quo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Especially in the case of Obamacare when it's going to cost you many times over to fix the mess.
Patently false, and really the crux of the issue: You are politically opposed to ACA for your own reasons, even though it actually improves the situation for those less fortunate than you. It is a net-win, but you're not willing to admit that because it is a net-loss for you and/or those you wish were favored. However, those that gained from ACA are those who were most in need of relief, and those who lost something from ACA are those who were not as bad off as those who gained. You cannot admit that, I know, for fear it would undercut your repeated attempts to justify your vacuous criticisms, on a moral level.

ACA was the best that could be done with the Congress that we had. It does bring the true cost of our system to light - an overwhelming positive because the previous status quo was directly supported by those who exploited ignorance to promulgate how things were to their own benefit, regardless of the fact that those most in need were marginalized. Now, everyone can better see just how much cost there is. There are no new costs. Some human costs (in terms of inadequate healthcare, premature death, etc.) have been converted into financial cost, so it can be accounted for in a way people can understand and compare. I know you would have rather have had those human costs remain hidden, because that would serve your own political perspective, but you lost that fight, and now the ignorance of the past has been remedied. This provides a strong foundation for moving forward.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:55 AM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,252,383 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Patently false, and really the crux of the issue: You are politically opposed to ACA for your own reasons, even though it actually improves the situation for those less fortunate than you. It is a net-win, but you're not willing to admit that because it is a net-loss for you and/or those you wish were favored. However, those that gained from ACA are those who were most in need of relief, and those who lost something from ACA are those who were not as bad off as those who gained. You cannot admit that, I know, for fear it would undercut your repeated attempts to justify your vacuous criticisms, on a moral level.
Yes I am against ACA but I completely support universal health care. The only way to do that though is not with the bloated mess we got.

Quote:
ACA was the best that could be done with the Congress that we had. It does bring the true cost of our system to light - an overwhelming positive because the previous status quo was directly supported by those who exploited ignorance to promulgate how things were to their own benefit, regardless of the fact that those most in need were marginalized. Now, everyone can better see just how much cost there is. There are no new costs. Some human costs (in terms of inadequate healthcare, premature death, etc.) have been converted into financial cost, so it can be accounted for in a way people can understand and compare. I know you would have rather have had those human costs remain hidden, because that would serve your own political perspective, but you lost that fight, and now the ignorance of the past has been remedied. This provides a strong foundation for moving forward.
Obamacare will never be fully implemented. Those against it now have everything they need to argue that putting your healthcare into the hands of the IRS is a bad thing.
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