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Old 04-28-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Steeler Nation
6,868 posts, read 3,920,330 times
Reputation: 1596

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Which brings up another point and a personal confession.

In the 60's I kept hearing about this
Quote:
Guitar God Eric Clapton
and this so-called Queen of the blues Janis Joplin and saying to myself WTF! How is some British guy and some drunk disheveled girl from Texas the heirs to the thrown when Buddy Guy, Albert King, BB King, Lightin' Hopkins, Bo Diddley, Ike Turner, Hubert Sumlin, just to name a few were still playing live. And what the hell is a Janis Joplin when Erma Franklin (Aretha's sister) was still belting out "Piece of My Heart" to say nothing about Etta James? As a result I dismissed both, through no fault of their own, and deprived myself of many years of enjoying their truly prodigious talents (it is also one of the things that has kept me from really enjoying Stevie Ray Vaughn).

For me I fault the general public and the music press for causing such disaffection not the artist themselves because each of whom I have listed were abundantly clear and quite outspoken about the roots of their talent and influences often expressed with the upmost humility. Something their fans always seem to lack.
I will take Roy Buchanan any day of the week over Clapton, Roy's music can get a little rough at times, but he is/was one of the best pure guitar players ever.


ROY BUCHANAN - THE MESSIAH WILL COME AGAIN(LIVE 1976) - YouTube


Roy Buchanan - Sweet Dreams - YouTube
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,336,826 times
Reputation: 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Not only that, the same guitar tunings pioneered by Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson and Muddy Waters, the same I, IV, V, chord progressions and still everything sitting in a 12 bar structure.

PS:

This is typical of the kind of thing that gets my Afrocentric blood boiling.

A forum list of the "10 greatest slide guitar players)

One person posted:
Amos Garrett: No precise info available - probably standard.

Johnny Winter:

Derek Trucks: "I played everything in open E [E, B, E, G#, B, E]."

Bonnie Raitt: "D G D G B D -- Open G / Spanish Tuning / Taro Patch"

Rory Block:

Robert Johnson (part of Rory's style)
WHAT Bonnie Raitt?? Rory Block???

No R.L Burnside, not Keb'Mo, no Taj, puleeze!
No Taj...sacrilege! "I had the blues so bad one time it put my face in a permanent frown, but now I'm feelin' so much better I could cakewalk into town."
However, what about Luther Allison?


Cherry Red Wine / Living in the House of the Blues~Luther Allison @ Bunkers 1997 - YouTube

As for the global influence of the blues, give a listen to Rory Gallagher...an amazing Irish talent. This is as fine an homage to Chuck Berry as you'll find. Uncharacteristically flashy for Rory, but you can hear his influence on everyone but Jimi, who was simply a genius. RIP, Rory.


Rory Gallagher - Bullfrog Blues - YouTube
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:11 PM
 
1,521 posts, read 1,604,437 times
Reputation: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural City Gal View Post
Can we discuss this? Can we also discuss that it's unfair how blacks are looked down upon when we enter a genre that we created, and that whites barely acknowledge us as the creators?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=JsXK1w0Yrm4


I was watching this on yt, and was shocked at the comments being made by whites.Are they really that oblivious?
Are you kidding me?? Blacks are worshipped in Rock and Roll. Ever hear of Jimi Hendrix? Lenny Kravitz, Chuck Berry, Wilson Picket, Sly Stone, Little Richard?? Just to name a few???
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:11 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,971,818 times
Reputation: 14895
Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Maurio View Post
Are you kidding me?? Blacks are worshipped in Rock and Roll. Ever hear of Jimi Hendrix? Lenny Kravitz, Chuck Berry, Wilson Picket, Sly Stone, Little Richard?? Just to name a few???
I don't that she is kidding and I think that she has a valid point. Outside of Boomers and young folks who are students of the genre I think that most rock fans are pretty clueless. Everyone you named Chuck Berry, Wilson Picket, Sly, Little Richard haven't been front and center for over 40 years (and I'm being charitable). Sly's last major recording was 1973! Now that may sound like yesterday to some of us but the truth is that was a long fracking time ago. As for Lenny Kravitz, its a bit of a stretch even imply that Kravitz had the slightest influence on the origins or direction of Rock and Roll.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:30 PM
 
18,660 posts, read 12,075,485 times
Reputation: 10144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural City Gal View Post
Can we discuss this? Can we also discuss that it's unfair how blacks are looked down upon when we enter a genre that we created, and that whites barely acknowledge us as the creators?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=JsXK1w0Yrm4


I was watching this on yt, and was shocked at the comments being made by whites.Are they really that oblivious?
What the hell?

I guess you never heard of one of my favorite musicians- Jimi Hendrix. I love the old Mo-Town sound. I love Scott Joplin. Current "black" music is crap (rap).

When a genre is created, no one has a patent on its production and performance.


Basketball was invented by a white man. Why do blacks have the audacity to play it?
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:43 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,971,818 times
Reputation: 14895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
No Taj...sacrilege!
That is a bit embarrassing since I've been a Taj fan since forever... which brings to mind a story. I was fix'in to go all Stagger Lee on this frat boy for dissing Miss Elizabeth Cotton during her performance at Tipitina's where she was opening for Taj. It took all of the little patients that I had at the time to explain to him that Miss Cotton in her day was one of the finest finger style blues players in the country. I had to explain to him that without the Ole Folks like Miss Cotton and Mr. John Hurt a young Henry Saint Clair Fredericks sitting in his U.Mass dorm would have never become known as Taj Mahal.

But this kind of ignorance is not the sole possession of drunk frat boys. Years later I was playing percussion in a pick-up jazz quintet when the guitar player an very proficient and formerly trained jazz guitarist called out for a Samba. Two measures into the song I'm trying to figure out what the frack time signature he was playing off, cause it wasn't mine. Trying to be polite for a change I ask him where did he get his inspiration for Samba's from. He said, "Chic Corea." Well Chic Corea is a fine musician to emulate but if you don't know what a fracking real Samba sounds and feels like you can't even begin to perform derivations and still think what you are playing is a freaking Samba...

But I digress - twice.

My point is that folks, even those with formal training, are usually only aware of about one generation older than their contemporary musical icons/heros/idols whatever so it isn't that far fetched that most rock and roll fans can only look back nostalgically as back as Eddie Van Halen, or Stevie Ray Vaughn (present company excluded).
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:30 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,971,818 times
Reputation: 14895
There is an issue that hasn't been raised.

Rock & Roll prior to its cross over beginnings was referred to as "Race Music" or more accurately music that decent white folks didn't listen two. That all changed with Elvis and when race music was reconfigured as Rock & Roll and the desegregation of popular music along with the rest of society. Yet even in the that wonderful era of 60's Rock and Roll where the Beatles, the Stones, Eric Burden and Cream brought to millions the music of early African American pioneers a whole generation of prepubescent white fans didn't recognize the connection as a result their children and their children's children are clueless about the roots of Rock and Roll and the music today with its genres and sub-genres and sub-sub-genres are prime examples. As a result, "Rock and Roll" is becoming increasingly re-segregated. R&B is going the way of blues, Hip-Hop is for blacks and metal and "indie" rock is white. Brothers and sisters of another mother, children who don't know who their absentee father is.

An article that puts in a better perspective from a writer more articulate, or at least with more time than me....

The Re-Segregation of Rock & Roll - David Kirby - The American Interest Magazine

It's long but it is worth the read.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:32 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,971,818 times
Reputation: 14895
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
What the hell?

I guess you never heard of one of my favorite musicians- Jimi Hendrix. I love the old Mo-Town sound. I love Scott Joplin. Current "black" music is crap (rap).

When a genre is created, no one has a patent on its production and performance.
You have reactively and defensively missed the op's entire point.

Folks need to stop posting "Not me!" and look at the bigger picture.

Quote:
Basketball was invented by a white man. Why do blacks have the audacity to play it?
Oh puleeze, leave this sort of sophist analogy for the Politics and other Controversies Forum oh, right this is the Politics and other Controversies Forum... unfortunately.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:37 PM
 
49,746 posts, read 26,390,551 times
Reputation: 15505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
That is a bit embarrassing since I've been a Taj fan since forever... which brings to mind a story. I was fix'in to go all Stagger Lee on this frat boy for dissing Miss Elizabeth Cotton during her performance at Tipitina's where she was opening for Taj. It took all of the little patients that I had at the time to explain to him that Miss Cotton in her day was one of the finest finger style blues players in the country. I had to explain to him that without the Ole Folks like Miss Cotton and Mr. John Hurt a young Henry Saint Clair Fredericks sitting in his U.Mass dorm would have never become known as Taj Mahal.

But this kind of ignorance is not the sole possession of drunk frat boys. Years later I was playing percussion in a pick-up jazz quintet when the guitar player an very proficient and formerly trained jazz guitarist called out for a Samba. Two measures into the song I'm trying to figure out what the frack time signature he was playing off, cause it wasn't mine. Trying to be polite for a change I ask him where did he get his inspiration for Samba's from. He said, "Chic Corea." Well Chic Corea is a fine musician to emulate but if you don't know what a fracking real Samba sounds and feels like you can't even begin to perform derivations and still think what you are playing is a freaking Samba...

But I digress - twice.

My point is that folks, even those with formal training, are usually only aware of about one generation older than their contemporary musical icons/heros/idols whatever so it isn't that far fetched that most rock and roll fans can only look back nostalgically as back as Eddie Van Halen, or Stevie Ray Vaughn (present company excluded).
I've never associated Chick Corea with the samba. Lol...where'd he come up with that?

No doubt, he's a great musician. I got to catch Return to Forever on their last tour...excellent.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,192 posts, read 4,362,068 times
Reputation: 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
...Rock & Roll prior to its cross over beginnings was referred to as "Race Music" or more accurately music that decent white folks didn't listen to...
And this, I think, speaks to one of the greatest, wildest early rockers: Little Richard. I know he's been mentioned on the thread, but we need to consider--this man's recording career began in 1951. And by the time anyone had heard of Elvis, he was freaking out square white parents to the extreme.

Imagine: here comes this loud, raucous, bawdy, flamboyantly gay black man from Macon, GA. touring the South, making TV appearances, etc. This had to have taken a lot of courage and I often think it's a wonder he wasn't lynched back in the day.

Besides that, he has added some truly killer, classic pages to The Great American Songbook.
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