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Old 04-25-2013, 08:30 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
11,353 posts, read 18,539,138 times
Reputation: 7893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Not only that, the same guitar tunings pioneered by Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson and Muddy Waters, the same I, IV, V, chord progressions and still everything sitting in a 12 bar structure.

PS:

This is typical of the kind of thing that gets my Afrocentric blood boiling.

A forum list of the "10 greatest slide guitar players)

One person posted:
Amos Garrett: No precise info available - probably standard.

Johnny Winter:

Derek Trucks: "I played everything in open E [E, B, E, G#, B, E]."

Bonnie Raitt: "D G D G B D -- Open G / Spanish Tuning / Taro Patch"

Rory Block:

Robert Johnson (part of Rory's style)
WHAT Bonnie Raitt?? Rory Block???

No R.L Burnside, not Keb'Mo, no Taj, puleeze!
Yeah well again its generational ignorance even I who am into music and plays guitar doesn't know all of the roots and details. I go to a guitar forum and read young people's hero's and Slash is their guitar god so often and even he is getting knocked off as not being known by some of the even younger players.

Slash is a great player, a riff monster but he is based on blues all the way. Kids who are into detuned baritone guitar metal that is out now hardly know anything about roots of where that came from their knowledge of roots start with maybe Metallica too often.

It was the game guitar hero that exposed many kids to the more classic rock and probably was the biggest guitar influence in the last decade sad to say.

Its all generational, what I call metal some kids do not thinking my contenders are too timid for metal. I said Godsmack was metal to me, they scoffed at that saying it was not. meh whatever
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:37 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,971,818 times
Reputation: 14895
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
The OP must be way young most of the big bands from the 60's contribute their music to blacks......the Rolling Stones have always claimed this and so has John Mellemcamp.
Once again, the OP wasn't referring to Rock musicians but fans and public in general.


Quote:
I always thought Metallica started this kind of music along with Insane Clown Posse...........by the way this is NOT Rock 'n' Roll!!
What is it, if not rock, bluegrass?

The AC/DC clip you provided is structurally about as rock and roll as one can get. The blues roots are so undeniable in Brian Johnson vocal phrasing as to need no further explanation.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Austin
295 posts, read 311,294 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Once again, the OP wasn't referring to Rock musicians but fans and public in general.




What is it, if not rock, bluegrass?

The AC/DC clip you provided is structurally about as rock and roll as one can get. The blues roots are so undeniable in Brian Johnson vocal phrasing as to need no further explanation.
All of Angus' solos are built on the pentatonic blues scale as well.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
11,353 posts, read 18,539,138 times
Reputation: 7893
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post

The AC/DC clip you provided is structurally about as rock and roll as one can get. The blues roots are so undeniable in Brian Johnson vocal phrasing as to need no further explanation.
Even more so in Angus Young's playing, who's guitar career is completely blues based in origin. Hendrix once said blues is easy to play but hard to feel, which what blues is about not so much technical playing as much as is feeling it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Austin
295 posts, read 311,294 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Not only that, the same guitar tunings pioneered by Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson and Muddy Waters, the same I, IV, V, chord progressions and still everything sitting in a 12 bar structure.

PS:

This is typical of the kind of thing that gets my Afrocentric blood boiling.

A forum list of the "10 greatest slide guitar players)

One person posted:
Amos Garrett: No precise info available - probably standard.

Johnny Winter:

Derek Trucks: "I played everything in open E [E, B, E, G#, B, E]."

Bonnie Raitt: "D G D G B D -- Open G / Spanish Tuning / Taro Patch"

Rory Block:

Robert Johnson (part of Rory's style)
WHAT Bonnie Raitt?? Rory Block???

No R.L Burnside, not Keb'Mo, no Taj, puleeze!
I agree Bonnie Raitt is ridiculous but I would easily put Duane Allman on that list (maybe in place of Derek Trucks).
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:59 PM
 
26,299 posts, read 17,165,453 times
Reputation: 10273
It's common knowledge that Elvis, considered the king of rock "n" roll was inspired, influenced by and emulated the black musicians of his time, which launched his career. It was the oddity of seeing a "white boy" singing black style music and dancing with more abandon and gyrations than the clean cut Pat Boone types that set him apart.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
11,353 posts, read 18,539,138 times
Reputation: 7893
Well in conclusion for me blues, jazz, r&b and soul are music that profoundly influenced the world that is American in origin specially the blues with special credit going to black Americans for pioneering.

Obviously many black Americans were involved with rock and some were among the best and most influencing guitar players I wish that were still so. Unfortunately today's generation especially among black generation don't consider instruments like guitar as viable in music at least in mainstream music. Then again techno music doesn't either both relying more on a drum machine more than anything. It took white musicians like Lincoln Park and Limp Biskit (lol) to incorporate guitar with hip hop rap mainstream but that guitar is just basic power chords in the back ground. Aerosmith and Run DMC tried with a redo of "Walk this way" but that was short lived and other earlier rap artists took guitar samples from songs but that faded away.

Given that, rap hip hop and other music like techno dance music doesn't connect with me at all.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,110 posts, read 5,775,303 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rural City Gal View Post
Can we discuss this? Can we also discuss that it's unfair how blacks are looked down upon when we enter a genre that we created, and that whites barely acknowledge us as the creators?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=JsXK1w0Yrm4


I was watching this on yt, and was shocked at the comments being made by whites.Are they really that oblivious?
Keep reading the YT comments. I got over the shock eons ago.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:02 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,162,845 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Its all generational, what I call metal some kids do not thinking my contenders are too timid for metal. I said Godsmack was metal to me, they scoffed at that saying it was not. meh whatever
Godsmack and other nu-metal bands are one of the red-headed stepchildren of metal, along with the 80s glam bands like Poison and Ratt. Compared to say Pig Destroyer or Xibalba they are pretty milquetoast though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Obviously many black Americans were involved with rock and some were among the best and most influencing guitar players I wish that were still so. Unfortunately today's generation especially among black generation don't consider instruments like guitar as viable in music at least in mainstream music.
Here ya go:


Animals As Leaders - "CAFO" Prosthetic Records - YouTube

Animals As Leaders are one of the bigger bands in the whole "djent" scene, which is the newer hotness in heavy music. Internet dorks cream their jeans all the time over Tosin Abasi. As for influence he's got tons of endorsements and signature guitars and whatnot already. So obviously there's a market for emulating him.

Last edited by J. Pederman; 04-26-2013 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:48 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,162,845 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Even 80's rock/metal while using power chords and then the classical influence ala Malmsteen more often used the blues scale for lead work , I hear more blues scale in a Ratt, Motley Crue, or Judas Priest song then I do any classical harmonic minor or something
Eh, that really depends. There were two concurrent and largely unrelated forms of metal in the 80s- the mainstream like Motley Crue and Bon Jovi, and the underground stuff, which outside bands like Trouble or Saint Vitus weren't very blues-influenced at all.

Compare these two songs from albums which came out a month apart- April and May 1989


Great White - Once Bitten Twice Shy - YouTube

vs


Morbid Angel - Immortal Rites - YouTube

Both considered "metal", but obviously very different music.
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