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Welfare only works with other people's money, y'all shoul be aware of that. Americans don't know what means working 5 months a year just to pay taxes like here, thanks God for that.
The state is completely inefficient. They distribute income (little thing, looks more like a vote-buying), encourage the consumption of the poor, saving decreases with the large amount of taxes and many people can not pay their debts. They say we're in an era of full employment, but more than 50 million Brazilians do not receive minimum wage, which is already a misery.
These people need better education, real jobs, more appreciation of entrepreneurship, things that really matter. We need less taxes, less dependency on government, it never really worked. Maybe in Norway or Sweden, where they have a good economic freedom, but unfortunately it's a completely different reality.
Welfare only works with other people's money, y'all shoul be aware of that. Americans don't know what means working 5 months a year just to pay taxes like here, thanks God for that.
The state is completely inefficient. They distribute income (little thing, looks more like a vote-buying), encourage the consumption of the poor, saving decreases with the large amount of taxes and many people can not pay their debts. They say we're in an era of full employment, but more than 50 million Brazilians do not receive minimum wage, which is already a misery.
These people need better education, real jobs, more appreciation of entrepreneurship, things that really matter. We need less taxes, less dependency on government, it never really worked. Maybe in Norway or Sweden, where they have a good economic freedom, but unfortunately it's a completely different reality.
Eduardo, our government wants to increase taxes even more, Reid will soon be saying that people should pay "a little bit more" and the freeloaders of our country will support raising taxes again."
So Brazil has very high taxes. What is the standard of living there.
These people need better education, real jobs, more appreciation of entrepreneurship, things that really matter. We need less taxes, less dependency on government, it never really worked. Maybe in Norway or Sweden, where they have a good economic freedom, but unfortunately it's a completely different reality.
Obama and his supporters believe that UE is an economic stimulus and demonizes small business.
After reading this whole thread, and even after years of reading on here and other american political forums things that make my skin crawl, I actually find myself in deep shock.
What in the world do some of you people think that a society is? Or what is the point of economy? Aren't developped countries supposed to be that exactly? Developped? Civilized?
As a French citizen, I won't say that I'm happy when comes the time to write that “tax check”, but when it is more this year than the year before, I don't feel angry, it means I made more than the previous year.
And where does that money go? To make my country better, help others in need, help and support the education system - university is quasi free here so accessible to all -, have the best natality rate in Western Europe thanks to infrastructure and protection of the working mother's rights at her job, build roads, help the elderly, etc, etc and most of all finance the social security for others and also for me of course (breast cancer at 23, can't imagine that in the USA as I was at the beginning of my career, I wouldn't have had a good insurance in your country) and as far as social security goes, imagine! We also have a system called CMU (Universal Medical Cover) which any foreigners or ILLEGALS have access to, no questions asked. Ask any American what happened if they were infortunate enough to be sick or injured when they were on French territory : paid nothing or next to nothing. And yes, that makes me proud.
Proud to live in a place where, despite more and more pushing for liberal politics (here liberal means very capitalistic, funny, isn't it? ) that tend to want to restrain it, NO ONE would think of attacking these rights. At least noone who would want to be elected or in their right minds period. Because, any human being should live in a society where this is the norm : compassion, help, solidarity. Because life and its quality is not about money, even if a minimum is needed to eliminate primal worries. Life is about everything else that is not materialistic: good food, joy, spare time, family, friends and anything you can think that doesn't have a price tag.
I'm not saying France doesn't have its problems but then you seem to have some of your share too, right? So that's not a good argument. Especially if you think this huge recession we're going through is largely due to malversations from american bankers and their european counterparts.
And no offense meant, but USA is supposed to be a christian nation from what I read here. I didn't read a lot of those christian thoughts in that thread.... I guess I prefer an atheist society then.
And as a devout atheist, I wish all of you who don't want to share a small part after all of your “hard earned money” with the less fortunate that for the rest of your life, God is always on your side, that you never fall sick or in hardship. I truly wish you that as I'm not revengeful
Don't you want to get along well? What do you suppose would happen if all welfare disappeared? That magically people would find jobs that don't exist or that it would create social chaos?
personne
Welfare, properly managed, is one thing.
Ridiculous to the point of absurd is what some of us rail against, which is what it has become here in the US.
personne
Welfare, properly managed, is one thing.
Ridiculous to the point of absurd is what some of us rail against, which is what it has become here in the US.
How absurd ? The whole point of the OP was to debunk the false idea people have of welfare and its abuse. And he/she gave facts and numbers. The whole point if I got it right, which I might not have, was to start a REAL discussion based on facts not fear or myths of welfare people living on lobster and watching gigantic tv all day.
That some (a few as all studies show) people abuse a system as soon as it's created, sure. There is a saying in french, it must exist in english but I don't know it, please forgive me, that goes like that: the more intelligently you create a mouse trap, the more intelligent the mouse becomes.
So, YES, it will happen, get over it. It doesn't mean that one shouldn't keep on making better traps, to follow the analogy It means that 99% of the population that need that welfare shouldn't not get the help because of the 1% that leach.
Again it comes back to my previous post : what kind of society does one want? You can totally want a dog eats dog society, then we'll disagree and if we ever vote in the same election, one of us will be able to gloat. You can also want an ideal society where everyone finds pride to work when it costs them more to do so than not to, where politicians are honest, businessmen and CEOs don't get major golden parachutes for outsourcing jobs in companies that make profit, etc. Then I'd agree a lot more with you but would still think it's a long stretch.
How about thinking of the best of all, and look out for the cheaters, liars, murderers but accept that they exist and always will and STILL have a sense of a community and do our best for that? And need I remind you of a big part of the Gettysburg Address: Governement of the People by the People for the People? The government is not inherently a bad thing, it's what we make of it, or at least should be. Let's remember that (and I will too, for the country I live in, we don't lack our own liar and corrupt politicians).
So that's my question : what kind of society do you want?
Because something tells me that if you think that welfare is over the top in your country, you'd have a heart attack in mine
ETA : I generally take more time to write my posts as english is not my first language and I want to be sure to make myself clear - although I'm sure I don't always succeed - but this one came out at once, so I apologize for any unclarity or grammatical errors.
Don't you want to get along well? What do you suppose would happen if all welfare disappeared? That magically people would find jobs that don't exist or that it would create social chaos?
I think the latter.
When cellphones are now considered essential to survival of the poor.
We spend over $1 trillion on means tested programs.
It is growing by 20%.
We have redundant overlapping programs.
We have 7 different milk programs and the last one is the "Special Milk" program that takes in people who didn't qualify for the other 6.
When cellphones are now considered essential to survival of the poor.
We spend over $1 trillion on means tested programs.
It is growing by 20%.
We have redundant overlapping programs.
We have 7 different milk programs and the last one is the "Special Milk" program that takes in people who didn't qualify for the other 6.
But then, how to find a job without a phone? I don't mean it should be government allocated (is it in the USA?).
But how to not be poor anymore if you can't call/answer potential employers? It is nowadays as essential as having the internet. Last time I recruited for a position, in 2 hours, I had more than 350 resumes, I had to shut the offer down! How can someone without internet deal with that? The people I called for that position (accountant), were few :10. 7 answered in the next hour. What happens to the person who took time to go to the library to answer the add but never answered my phone call in time because they didn't have a cellphone? That's terrible! And maybe I didn't hire the best person for the job.
I read that Americans pay still a lot more in cell phone bill than we do (I'm speaking for France as I'm not sure for others). I have a 9.99€/mth that gives me unlimited calls (including international, in the exception of a few countries) and unlimited text, no contract. And it wasn't a gift from the government, it was pure capitalism : a new phone compagny offered that deal and forced the others to align.
I don't know what overlapping and means tested programs means? Would you have the kindness to explain?
Last edited by personne; 12-02-2013 at 07:51 AM..
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) that tend to want to restrain it, NO ONE would think of attacking these rights. At least noone who would want to be elected or in their right minds period. Because, any human being should live in a society where this is the norm : compassion, help, solidarity. Because life and its quality is not about money, even if a minimum is needed to eliminate primal worries. Life is about everything else that is not materialistic: good food, joy, spare time, family, friends and anything you can think that doesn't have a price tag.
It means that 99% of the population that need that welfare shouldn't not get the help because of the 1% that leach.
