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If you cannot argue, you must not have a strong enough case to argue for, or are not educated about the subject.
It is very, very hard to argue against the facts and truths, of any case.
That's the main reason why the media retorts to name calling when people challenge official accounts of
events. Sometimes those accounts of events may not hold up to scrutiny.
I don't know about you pansy asses, that are afraid to question anything, but I was brought up to go with your gut, question everything and find the answers.
Conspiracies have never been proven false. That is why they are still a conspiracy and not a proven lie.
But what about when there are people who have credentials who challenge an account of an event including architects, engineers, pilots, FBI workers, people who are even on commission of investigation, etc?
Again it's a problem when people pretend they have all the answers that the government hasn't let us know about
But it's an even bigger problem when people decide that we should never question an official account of a terror event.
This idea has been pushed by the media and bought in by the citizens..
I have never heard anyone actually say that we should never question an official account of a terror event.
OF COURSE we should always always always question those in power.
So how about giving the same scrutiny and asking questions of those who are telling us something different? Let's take an example you allude to in your post. There's a group called A&E911 or something like that who claim to be "architects and engineers" questioning NCSTAR1 and 1A, the NIST analyses of the WTC collapses. Sounds exciting and very promising to a conspiracy theorist, doesn't it? However, I am a person who worked for 20 years in the WTC, was in the north tower on 9/11, worked for most of those years with engineers--in the earliest years, some who had built the WTC, and later with those who maintained it. Some of those engineers died on 9/11. Others lost family members and/or barely escaped themselves. They came back, worked on the pile, worked at Fresh Kills, worked with the NIST people in doing the collapse analysis. Die-hard conspiracy theorists would LOVE for you to think that the US government somehow swooped down on lower Manhattan and took control of the cleanup and the investigation and the sorting and analysis of the debris, but that's not quite how it went. The feds were there, but in the minority. They hardly had this overreaching control of the site that conspiracy theorists want you to believe they had--which in and of itself, makes me suspicious. If you have valid questions, why is there a need to twist the incontrovertible facts? Your case should be able to stand on its own merits without bending known truths. There were 40,000 people working on the site and at Fresh Kills, and the majority of them were not governmental employees.
So off goes NIST with about 200 pieces of the steel, the rest is stored at JFK in Hangar 17. They get a top engineer to run the analysis, come up with a report--and then they send it out in draft form to non-governmental structural and civil engineers as well as fire safety people and others present at the WTC site on 9/11. Does this sound like the way to conduct some secret plot to form a false report? Those engineers make comments, they are incorporated, and the final report is issued.
Afterward, nationwide and worldwide, engineering symposiums and conferences are held on the collapses so that better building and life safety designs can be made in the future. Out of hundreds of thousands of engineers, this palty handful of 1500 hundred or so sign a petition for this group called A&E911 and tour the country trying to persuade the gullible that they are correct and all those other professionals are lying to you.
So there's one question: Why are so few professional engineers and architects questioning the collapse analysis presented by NIST and supporting this A&E911 group?
But wait, there's more. How about asking, "are these REALLY architects and engineers?" Well...not really, not all of them or even most of them. I ran through the list myself a few years ago when it was around 800 or so. Some are students. Some are chemical or computer engineers. No names were familiar. And the only one who seemed to be remotely connected or have had actually ever been to the World Trade Center was a retired electrician who had worked on the original construction in the 1960s. Call me crazy, but I don't think the opinion of a person like that qualifies over that of a structural PE who examined the steel and was present at the WTC site on or after 9/11.
Lastly, the guy who is the head of this A&E911 thing goes around the country demonstrating how the collapse really happened--using cardboard boxes. I'm sorry, this guy might be educated as an architect, but there seems to be a reason he doesn't have a real job.
So yes, ALWAYS question the government. But while you're at it, question everyone else, too, because just because they have a different story from the commonly-accepted one that you may doubt, it doesn't automatically mean that theirs is factual either.
Note that very little to none of the information I've provided above comes from the media or from government sources. It's based on what I know through my job and the people I am acquainted with and my own experience. However, I am well aware that a true, ordained conspiracy theorist is obligated to now proclaim me a paid shill, or, as one delusional City-Data truther believes, that I work for the CIA.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 04-27-2013 at 09:58 PM..
"I've come to the conclusion that you really can't talk to those folks. You cannot reason with them, because they are so invested in the crazy story that they've gotten a hold of -- like a Rottweiler -- and bitten it and chewed it until it became a really bloody, big lie. The better way is to just use the Serenity Prayer....
Alice Hoagland, mother of Mark Bingham who died aboard Fight 93 on dealing with conspiracy theorist.
Hello Mom ... it's Mark Bingham .... you believe me don't you?
Yes, when my mom was still alive, and I called her on the phone, I naturally introduced myself using my first and last names ... so that she would not be confused and say ... "Mark who?"
This is not a conspiracy theory, but just a very asinine and lame story that makes no sense to anyone with two brain cells that can still shake hands.
But I'm sure many of you automatically identify yourself with your first and last name to your mother when you call her on the phone, right? Must be a new liberal phenomenon .... I would always just say ... "Hi mom, it's me" ... and I never received a "Me who?" from her ... just, hi honey, I was just thinking about you ....
But I suppose, if I hadn't talked to her in 20 years, I might have needed to use my first name.
Hello Mom ... it's Mark Bingham .... you believe me don't you?
Yes, when my mom was still alive, and I called her on the phone, I naturally introduced myself using my first and last names ... so that she would not be confused and say ... "Mark who?"
This is not a conspiracy theory, but just a very asinine and lame story that makes no sense to anyone with two brain cells that can still shake hands.
But I'm sure many of you automatically identify yourself with your first and last name to your mother when you call her on the phone, right? Must be a new liberal phenomenon .... I would always just say ... "Hi mom, it's me" ... and I never received a "Me who?" from her ... just, hi honey, I was just thinking about you ....
But I suppose, if I hadn't talked to her in 20 years, I might have needed to use my first name.
Making sense will get you nowhere with these people.
Hello Mom ... it's Mark Bingham .... you believe me don't you?
Yes, when my mom was still alive, and I called her on the phone, I naturally introduced myself using my first and last names ... so that she would not be confused and say ... "Mark who?"
Pathetic on your part. His mother and friends even stated that he would sometimes introduce himself that way. so there was no surprise to his mother that he would call himself Mark Bingham.
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