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Old 04-30-2013, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 7,442,018 times
Reputation: 1578

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And think back. Bush would have delivered all the money of Social Security into their hands. Lotta Cartier Diamonds and Rolls Royces with that kind of cash. That is what they call "saving social security". Like we "saved Iraq". Don't ever let a banker "save" you. Better to drive off a cliff, quicker and less painless.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:15 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,207,211 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Just another example of the facade of social mobility in the US. All the laws on the books are written to protect the uber rich and Wall Street banks due to the fact the government is impregnated from top to bottom with friends of Wall Street. How are the regulators supposed to regulate when there's a revolving door of employees between government regulators and Wall Street? Then when Wall Street's gambling blows up, tax payers have to bail them out so our entire way of life doesn't collapse due to financial armegeddon. Yeah, America is "the land of the free" alright. NOT.

PBS Drops Another Bombshell: Wall Street Is Gobbling Up Two-Thirds of Your 401(k)
There ya go. Now, look up the S&L Crisis and find out how long Wall Street has been taking America and the American citizen for a ride.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:28 AM
 
26,180 posts, read 14,797,686 times
Reputation: 14375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
And think back. Bush would have delivered all the money of Social Security into their hands. Lotta Cartier Diamonds and Rolls Royces with that kind of cash. That is what they call "saving social security". Like we "saved Iraq". Don't ever let a banker "save" you. Better to drive off a cliff, quicker and less painless.
.
You can also wake up from your fantasy.

Bush wanted to give individuals the option of placing a portion of their Payroll taxes into stock indexes - with management fees of around 0.1%.

Guess what...Social Security has a management fee too that has historically fluctuated between 0.8 and 2.3%...currently on the low end... Do you think all of the Social Security employees work on hugs and kisses?

Guess what...had he gotten his way...anyone who would have done so would be above what Social Security is currently offering.

If you were allowed to take your payroll taxes and your employer's matching payroll taxes and contribute them into an annuity over the course of your working life...the odds are you could get a monthly check of about double what Social Security will give you...


P.S. Social Security Disability Insurance has had management fees of 10.3% in the 1950s...and today is still above 2%... Where is the PBS outrage for this?

P.P.S. Social Security Fees will start to rise sharply again as the Social Security Trust Fund is fully depleted by 2033. As they will have to take a bigger percentage of money as their pot of money shrinks. My 401K funds that I invest in average to have less fees than Social Security. Odds are yours already do or will do so in a few years.

Last edited by michiganmoon; 04-30-2013 at 05:48 AM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,857 posts, read 47,191,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
First of all, 2% is an outrageous fee and not representative of a typical 401(k) management fee. Second, even at 2%, I'd like to see how the math works out that this would equate to siphoning off 2/3rds of your account. Third, do people think defined benefit funds are managed for free?
It has to mean 2/3 of the gain, not of the balance. It could be true based on an average balance, which is very low in US. I have read similar articles where the math adds up, but I don't remember 2/3 specifically. Since the 2012 law the fees must be disclosed on every 401K statement, and I am sure a lot of people will be shocked to see that thousands of dollars is deducted from their accounts every year.

80% of 401K do not know how much is taken out of their balance in fees.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-30-2013 at 06:51 AM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,309,800 times
Reputation: 3863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Liberals suck at math. And finance.
And the (neo)conservatives in DC?

We need to get real, wake up and realize this is not a partisan issue.

Neither party is fully responsible for the mess we are in, and certainly neither party has a solution to get us out of it.

More importantly, neither party even holds real power in this nation.

The power in the USA resides with multinational CEOs, heads of global banks and energy concerns, and lobbyists.

To demonize or lionize one or the other major political parties is myopic, hypocritical partisan hackery. It is also pointless, baseless and regressive.

The GOP is NOT conservative, nor are they even trying to do the will of The People. The Democratic Party is not your friend--they aren't working for the citizens of this country either.

DC politicians of both parties are bought, sold and owned by people far wealthier and more powerful than themselves.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,875,216 times
Reputation: 3497
The Retirement Gamble | FRONTLINE | PBS

Link to the excellent PBS show mentioned in the OP. Yes, it is true. You put up 100% of the capital, you take 100% of the risk, and you only get 1/3rd of the return.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,544,333 times
Reputation: 24857
We could do a lot to reduce the income gap by eliminating the cap on taxable income to support social security insurance. We could also install an income tax the eliminated any payments by people below the 95th percentile. The rich own the country so let them pay for running it.

Why not soak the rich? After all they do have all the real money.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:57 AM
 
4,534 posts, read 4,905,768 times
Reputation: 6327
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Great points. You would have to own a fund earning 3% that charges a very high fee to reach the claimed 2/3rds....and mind you 401Ks are for the long term...so you would be in an under performing fund that charged you immensely for years.

The Michigan Teacher's pension has a management fee of around 1.5%...had been even higher. I pay less fees in my 401K. When Republicans tried to address this - there was liberal/union indignation.
Wrong.

Use any compound interest calculator online and start with an easy example---say $100,000 earning 7% interest over 50 years.

Now change the interest earned to 5% (which amounts to a 2% annual fee) and you'll see your earnings drop by near 2/3rds.


What financial advisers should really talk about are the powers of compounded fees rather than the power of compounded returns. Let's be real here, even though many 401ks have less than 2% fees, many have higher fees. Also, even if you have lower fees, many people earn less than 7% returns and in reality earn only 3-5%.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,230 posts, read 17,782,849 times
Reputation: 4585
Wall Street ??? What a scam...

Top economist Jeffrey Sachs says Wall Street is full of 'crooks' and hasn't changed since the financial crash - Americas - World - The Independent
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,857 posts, read 47,191,511 times
Reputation: 14734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Link to the excellent PBS show mentioned in the OP. Yes, it is true. You put up 100% of the capital, you take 100% of the risk, and you only get 1/3rd of the return.
It is the bankers dream come true. Do the retirement savers also benefit? Yes, of course we do, but as you say, the banks pull in hundreds of billions in profit from other people's money.
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