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Old 05-10-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,979 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684

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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
When we start dithering over the prepositions used....

It's time to discontinue further discourse.
"Don't tell me that words don't matter," Obama said, his voice rising with indignation and scorn on February 16, 2008.

So, answer the question... Which U.S. monarch are U.S. citizens subjects of?

 
Old 05-10-2013, 04:28 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,979 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
We're not subjects of a monarchy. We are subjects of a constitutional republic.
WRONG!

Jefferson changed 'subjects' to 'citizens' in Declaration of Independence
 
Old 05-10-2013, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,041,850 times
Reputation: 2874
One more time:

If this is such an open and shut case, then why haven't birthers won a single court case?
 
Old 05-10-2013, 04:33 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,979 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
They she goes again. Lying through her teeth about what other people say.
Is your claim now that English common law says that subjects are not subjects of a monarchy?
 
Old 05-10-2013, 04:47 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,979 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post

If this is such an open and shut case, then why haven't birthers won a single court case?
No court has ever honestly examined the issues raised. Apparently, Obama and his supporters are deathly afraid of an honest and open examination of the doubts as to Obama's eligibility.
 
Old 05-10-2013, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,041,850 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No court has ever honestly examined the issues raised.
Proof?
 
Old 05-10-2013, 09:27 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,761 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
The US Supreme Court and at least 33 subsequent courts says otherwise.

QED: You lose.

"When you have a supreme court that has been threatened and intimidated into submission, a Congress and Senate that have been mostly bribed and a President who is a puppet, then going through them is not a realistic option in dealing with the criminal fascist takeover of the US." - Kirwan

http://rense.com/

Last edited by Nonarchist; 05-10-2013 at 09:39 PM..
 
Old 05-10-2013, 09:36 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,428,607 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelNo View Post
Nowhere in the 17th century English law was it held or ruled that native-birth sufficed to make a natural born subject.

The benchmark English court case, i.e. Calvin's case was used by the SCOTUS in the Wong Kim Ark citizenship case where Wong was affirmed to be a "citizen of the United States" but not a "natural born citizen".

These are the only two classes of citizens mentioned in the US Constitution, they are distinctly different within the context of Article II of the US Constitution, and where it is made clear that a "citizen of the United States" is NOT eligible for the office of president of the United States, (a "citizen of the United States" may be a born US citizen) but the other class of US citizen is, i.e. a "natural born citizen", which is descriptive of a person who would already be a US citizen, but with an extra quality of being "natural born".

This situation where there are two types of born US citizens was made clear in the US Supreme Court case of Wong Kim Ark, when in the decision of the court Justice Horace Gray cited Horace Binney's recognition of two types of born US citizens, i.e.

1. "the child of an alien, if born in the country"

2. " the natural born child of a citizen"

A thorough reading of Lord Coke's report on Calvin's case makes it plain to see that Lord Coke in his report, expressly rejected native-birth as sufficient to make a natural born subject, Coke further stated that a friendly alien visitor to the English realm was embraced as a "subject" due to local ligeance and that if a native-born child was "not born under the ligeance of a subject", then that child "can be no subject" at all and would be an alien-born.

It was always about the allegiance of the father, i.e. it was the father's ligeance which was the deciding factor in determining if his child's subject or alien-born status.

It was NEVER determined by place of birth.

IF it were true that the Founders and Framers followed the English rule, then for a child born native in US to be a natural born citizen, that child would by necessity have to be "born under the ligeance of" a US citizen father.

Here are some verbatim excerpts from Lord Coke's report of Calvin's case...

Online Library of Liberty - Calvin's Case, or the Case of the Postnati. 1 - Selected Writings of Sir Edward Coke, vol. I

The notion that "alien parent + native-born child = natural born subject" was the English rule, is utterly wrong and is a misrepresentation of the actual facts.

Nowhere in the 17th century English law was it held or ruled that native-birth sufficed to make a natural born subject.
Maybe you haven't heard about this but we had a little incident back in 1776 that resulted in a few changes
 
Old 05-10-2013, 09:43 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,761 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
Maybe you haven't heard about this but we had a little incident back in 1776 that resulted in a few changes
Your point?
 
Old 05-10-2013, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,704,934 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonarchist View Post
Your point?
English law does not apply to the US. Back to what I've said several times. So what if that's what English law of 1650 said.
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