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In RTW states, in unionized environments, on average 55-60% of employees elgible to join the union DO NOT join. Thank God, their rights were not violated and they were given the freedom to make this choice.
Freedom is beautiful.
The right wing concept of freedom is to have one's behind kicked by the powerful and rich because one has decided to submit oneself to being powerless before the powerful. And why? Because, right wingnuts teach that servility to the rich and powerful is next to godliness, that's why. Heaven forbid one should unite with others and bargain from a more powerful spot against the power of the rich. Nooooooooooo way! That wouldn't be very godly. The right wing teaches that the poor and working poor need to know (and stay in) their rightful place: bent over and waiting to have their @#$ kicked by the rich. Such a lovely ideology indeed.
Are you that insecure about your ability that you think that without union support your labor isn't valued?
I am glad that I was instilled with the self confidence of knowing that I don't need someone to negotiate my worth for me.
In a labor market that overwhelmingly favors the employer combined with a general attitude toward business that overwhelmingly favors the employer, membership in a union is a desirable possession to own.
So here's the way I see it. I belonged to a union for a couple years. As an apprentice machinist, I was paid a starting wage of $14/hr while most non union companies would not even train machinist apprentices. Most other jobs available to a teen like me paid burger flipping wages. So, I feel I benefited strongly because of the union, although that was also the last union job I had. Today, I earn a middle class income, and I attribute that mostly to the union. And I will say, we worked our tails off in that plant every day. We had to. Nobody wanted to end up in the private sector where companies were trying to win over a full fledged journeyman for peanuts.
Many of my friends are finishing college around this time and trying to enter the private sector. The ones finding the most success it seems are the ones working in a unionized environment, whether it's government or private. Non union companies don't have to train, so they won't. Many of my friends also consider themselves conservative, but you know what's funny about them? Those that are working in a union environment are literally bragging about the fact that they have the union on their side. That's why I don't believe this is a typical conservative or liberal issue.
I was offered a union job about one and a half years ago. Told my family about it and mentioned it was a union job in Indiana. Mind you, my father is a hard core conservative who vehemently detests the union. He believes they are what killed much of his work, as he worked as an engineer largely in the automotive sector all his working life. Of course, when I told him about this job, what did he say??? "Quit your job and take it!" Turns out it was actually a union busting job and the company was trying to trick me into working as a scab. Nice try... Later that year, there was a large chemical spill at that plant that killed and injured several folks. I heard some real horror stories about that particular plant following the union busting strategies. You get what you pay for.
Non union companies don't have to train, so they won't.
Having 17 years experience in management in union shops and another 18 in non-union shops, I don't get this comment. There was no difference in the quality or amount of training we provided, in fact it was more intense in the non-union shops, but I chalk that up to more competition and ever more regulatory requirements not union/non-union. You can't have a productive workforce without training that I know of.
Do you mean training, or apprenticeships specifically? I understand apprenticeships aren't as readily available today because where there was once a shortage of skilled trades (or whatever term you prefer), today there seems to be an excess in some trades at least.
a choice to associate with others only as each individual sees fit.
If there is a union, and they wish to join, I am vehemently in favor of allowing them the right to their choice.
If there is a union, and they wish NOT to join, I am vehemently in favor of allowing them the right to their choice.
To not allow either choice is FACIST.
BS. If that were true, right wingers wouldn't be about destroying unions. They simply wouldn't join them. But right wing ideology is about trying to control people's lives. They do that in everything - they can't just not have an abortion. They have to prohibit it and penalize those involved in it. They can't just not refrain from having a gay relationship - they have to make sure gays cannot formalize their love relationships. And so on, and so on. Freedom? My a**.
BS. If that were true, right wingers wouldn't be about destroying unions. They simply wouldn't join them. But right wing ideology is about trying to control people's lives. They do that in everything - they can't just not have an abortion. They have to prohibit it and penalize those involved in it. They can't just not refrain from having a gay relationship - they have to make sure gays cannot formalize their love relationships. And so on, and so on. Freedom? My a**.
Wrong. I want everyone in every state when in a place of employment with a union to still have a choice to join, or refrain from joining.
If unions are nirvana, you'd have 100% joining in RTW states where unions exist. 3 in 5 know better, based on their decision to say "No, Thanks".
Wrong. I want everyone in every state when in a place of employment with a union to still have a choice to join, or refrain from joining.
If unions are nirvana, you'd have 100% joining in RTW states where unions exist. 3 in 5 know better, based on their decision to say "No, Thanks".
I'm being cynical here: 3 in 5 know that they can reap the benefits of a union without incurring the costs of membership in right to work states.
A long time ago, employers overreached through exploitation of their labor. A shorter time ago, labor overreached through their unions. I will not be surprised to see an time when employers overreach again. Then unions will be seen in a better light... that is until they guide labor into overreaching again.
Why do non-unionized people whine at the benefits union personnel have?
I have never heard a non union worker "whine" about union worker benefits. Your fantasy?
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