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Old 10-31-2007, 01:41 PM
 
58 posts, read 34,971 times
Reputation: 40

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Beyond the hype and the "bush-hate", that article wasn't too informative. Of course veto power is fully within executive power as dictated by the constitution, and congress has the ability to override a veto. Good for him, one of the problems I had with him is he wasn't using his veto powers ENOUGH, particularly on spending bills. Finally! As for administrative orders - I again see nothing conflicting with the role of executive power. It mentions foreign policy and "managerial" decisions, etc, sorry...that's what he was elected to do wheater you agree with it or not.

Next bush-hate post?
The man is gathering powers unto himself that completely exceed those traditionally assigned to the presidency. This fact has been reported numerous times already. He lied to the American public about Iraq and got us into a protracted 5 year war (and counting). He fiddle-faddled thru Katrina, he drove our national economy into the ground, he's approved torture and clandestine prisons, he's given millionaires outrageous tax-breaks.

I could go on and on for HOURS about this man you seem to admire so much.

But I won't because if you don't already hate Bush at this stage..
..it's because YOU'RE PROBABLY A MASOCHIST.

Bush challenges hundreds of laws - The Boston Globe
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Old 10-31-2007, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 7,061,582 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Such ignorance on executive power...if he wanted to bomb Iran rest assured he could do it with a simple phone call in about 5 seconds. He needs absolutely no congressional approval...yeah yeah there is the war powers acts and all that, but that hasn't been used in decades.

He didn't need approval for congressional military action in Iraq, but he did it as a courtesy. Lot of good it did him with all these senators now going "no I never wanted military action in Iraq, I was just for it before I was against it...".
No I understand that completely. My point being that today both the Congress and the American Public are a bit more skeptical about both our national intelliegence branch and the President, both literally and figuratively.

Back when the common thinking was a President was somebody that would understand that War is a serious business and should be only considered as a last resort, we trusted Bush to actually have...you know... a Plan, before he invaded a sovereign country in the Middle East.

Now that we see he really has no plan except to Bomb things, were he to just "make a phone call" today and bomb Iran, that slim thread you see that is the hope of A Republican making it back to the Oval Office would be snapped irrevocably.

So now he is trying to lay the groundwork to make his bombing look a little bit less reckless and more Presidential.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:13 PM
 
1,408 posts, read 4,449,996 times
Reputation: 470
If "administrative orders" are the same thing as Executive Orders, then Bush is merely following in the footsteps of his predecessor Bill Clinton.

In the waning days of his administration (late 2000 into Jan. '01) Der Schlickmeister signed a whole spate of these EO's, covering a wide range of policies—and creating a nice administrative mess for GWB to undo during his first 100 days!

The games politicians play...
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:23 PM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 4,093,608 times
Reputation: 2344
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Yet another attempt to make Congress irrelevant and unnecessary. 50 bucks says this invertebrate Congress rolls over and takes it. This is a bad road to travel and if people can't see the blatant grab for power that this constitutes, then by all means, refer to him as supreme chancellor.

The Raw Story | White House says Bush plans administrative orders to govern, avoiding Congress

It's not quite signing statements, where President George W. Bush used legal means to "interpret" laws, allowing him to avoid Congressional directives, but the White House is now planning to implement as much new policy "as it can" by administrative order "after concluding that President Bush cannot do much business with the Democratic leadership."

"White House aides say the only way Bush seems to be able to influence the process is by vetoing legislation or by issuing administrative orders, as he has in recent weeks on veterans' health care, air-traffic congestion, protecting endangered fish and immigration," the Post authors write. "They say they expect Bush to issue more of such orders in the next several months, even as he speaks out on the need to limit spending and resist any tax increases."
That is what should happen since they are not working for us Americans...
Carrie
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:24 PM
 
Location: OKC, OK
640 posts, read 357,496 times
Reputation: 133
With Congress approval rating at historic lows ~ something around 20% ~ it's refreshing to know that President Bush can use his Executive or Administrative Order powers and initiate his plans.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:27 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,994,456 times
Reputation: 2798
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Yet another attempt to make Congress irrelevant and unnecessary.
Congress has made themselves irrelevant. They are necessary. Bush is trying to get something done himself because Congress seems more interested in arguing with Rush Limbaugh than doing anythihng meaningful.

Last edited by ontheroad; 10-31-2007 at 02:36 PM.. Reason: added end quote for clarity
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:28 PM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 4,093,608 times
Reputation: 2344
Congress seems to be doing a great job of making itself irrelevant by doing no work.

Carrie
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:41 PM
 
12,197 posts, read 18,345,843 times
Reputation: 18979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgusted View Post
The man is gathering powers unto himself that completely exceed those traditionally assigned to the presidency. This fact has been reported numerous times already. He lied to the American public about Iraq and got us into a protracted 5 year war (and counting). He fiddle-faddled thru Katrina, he drove our national economy into the ground, he's approved torture and clandestine prisons, he's given millionaires outrageous tax-breaks.

I could go on and on for HOURS about this man you seem to admire so much.

But I won't because if you don't already hate Bush at this stage..
..it's because YOU'RE PROBABLY A MASOCHIST
You are getting WAYYYY off topic, too far off to debate further. I hardly admire Bush but am debating the role of executive power and the segregation of power in the govenment. Why not engage in the debate instead of diverting to a Bush hate rant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
No I understand that completely. My point being that today both the Congress and the American Public are a bit more skeptical about both our national intelliegence branch and the President, both literally and figuratively.

Back when the common thinking was a President was somebody that would understand that War is a serious business and should be only considered as a last resort, we trusted Bush to actually have...you know... a Plan, before he invaded a sovereign country in the Middle East.

Now that we see he really has no plan except to Bomb things, were he to just "make a phone call" today and bomb Iran, that slim thread you see that is the hope of A Republican making it back to the Oval Office would be snapped irrevocably.

So now he is trying to lay the groundwork to make his bombing look a little bit less reckless and more Presidential.
Understood but presidents have typically disregarded congress in declaring war, even with the war powers act. Doesn't matter if it was Clinton taking action in Somalia or Bush 1 taking action in Panama. One must presume he wouldn't bomb Iran without at least advising congress because he just no longer has the political clout to get away with it and their would be an uproar from many like you, and, hey probably me.
But the common denominator in this discussion is the seperation of powers in government. The actual war powers act is debatably unconstitutional, as the power to defend the country (and this means preemptive invasions) resides in the executive branch, like it or not, in accordance with the oath of office the president takes.
The legislative branch acts as a check and balance, and to set laws, etc. But nothing in the original link indicates the president is exceeding his powers.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:44 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,442,510 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Yet another attempt to make Congress irrelevant and unnecessary. 50 bucks says this invertebrate Congress rolls over and takes it. This is a bad road to travel and if people can't see the blatant grab for power that this constitutes, then by all means, refer to him as supreme chancellor.

The Raw Story | White House says Bush plans administrative orders to govern, avoiding Congress

It's not quite signing statements, where President George W. Bush used legal means to "interpret" laws, allowing him to avoid Congressional directives, but the White House is now planning to implement as much new policy "as it can" by administrative order "after concluding that President Bush cannot do much business with the Democratic leadership."

"White House aides say the only way Bush seems to be able to influence the process is by vetoing legislation or by issuing administrative orders, as he has in recent weeks on veterans' health care, air-traffic congestion, protecting endangered fish and immigration," the Post authors write. "They say they expect Bush to issue more of such orders in the next several months, even as he speaks out on the need to limit spending and resist any tax increases."
If you think Bush is bad with Presidential Orders (a/k/a Executive Orders), just wait if Hillary is elected. She will ignore Congress altogether and run the show herself.

We need a strict Constitutionalist for a President in 2008. In that sense, even Ron Paul is better than (yuck) Hillary.

With Hillary, it is HER WAY, as the book goes.
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Old 10-31-2007, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,432,881 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgusted View Post
The man is gathering powers unto himself that completely exceed those traditionally assigned to the presidency. This fact has been reported numerous times already. He lied to the American public about Iraq and got us into a protracted 5 year war (and counting). He fiddle-faddled thru Katrina, he drove our national economy into the ground, he's approved torture and clandestine prisons, he's given millionaires outrageous tax-breaks.

I could go on and on for HOURS about this man you seem to admire so much.

But I won't because if you don't already hate Bush at this stage..
..it's because YOU'RE PROBABLY A MASOCHIST.

Bush challenges hundreds of laws - The Boston Globe
Boston globe= liberal opinion only.
Lied to us about Iraq? Congress and senate saw the same faulty evidence produced by the clinton designed CIA, England came up with the same conclusuions.
Katrina? 1 more time. Read Popular mechanics Katrina debunking the myths. If you do you may learn that it was not 100% GWB's fault or even FEMA's.
I dislike bush and find him to be an embarrassment, but damn.
If the Fed gov is the reason New orleans was screwed up and it was due to incompetence, then why were Fla and Miss handled correctly?
Made a huge mistake no doubt about it. LIED? That has yet to be proven.
Our economy? Better than under Carter, Reagan, or Bush sr. Unemployment lower than under slick willie, and more first time home owners then ever before in american history. Cant be do bad if people can afford to buy a home.
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