U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: What should we do to women who get abortions?
Nothing at all. 67 79.76%
Death penalty. 6 7.14%
Life in prison 2 2.38%
1-10 years in prison 9 10.71%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-11-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,122 posts, read 19,212,969 times
Reputation: 20728

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719 View Post
I am a born and raised catholic and couldn't agree more.
Don't religious groups that sponsor homeless shelters and soup kitchens have strings attached to those hand-outs?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-11-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,737 posts, read 83,373,533 times
Reputation: 41575
Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
Poll included, please vote.

If abortion is murder, then it stands to reason that we should treat women who get abortions FOR ANY REASON the same way murderers already get treated: death penalty or life in prison (or at least several years).

If all abortion is murder, then the reason for getting an abortion should not be relevant because all abortions result in a "dead innocent baby", therefore, murder. A woman who gets an abortion for birth defects should be treated the same as women who abort because of rape, incest, deteriorating health of the mother, a dying baby, birth control failure or simply because she doesn't want a child. If you oppose abortion but make exceptions, then you're not being morally consistent. You can't say that it's acceptable to murder an innocent baby in X situation but it's unacceptable to murder an innocent baby in Y situation.

So how should we, as a society treat women who get abortions?
I am not sure how many feel it is truly murder but it is taking a life. Self defense is taking a life, but it isn't murder. Abortion is legal thus nothing can or should be done to a woman who chooses to abort. we are not talking about a doctor who kills living babies, that is totally different. That is murder and he/she should get the same treatment. I happen to be pro life but I would never want to see a woman who decided to abort put to death.

As for the reason not being relevant, of course it should be. Our granddaughter when through this a couple of years ago. She was carrying a little girl with no forehead, no nose and a brain outside the skull. No one with any feelings could expect her to continue the pregnancy. Why she didn't miscarry was a puzzlement to her OB. This child would never have lived more than a few minutes after birth. I will add, our granddaughter and hubby are very religious and very much pro lifers. I would never group someone carrying a child like this in the same category as the woman who chooses not to give birth cause it isn't convenient.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,132 posts, read 13,381,269 times
Reputation: 20565
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I am not sure how many feel it is truly murder but it is taking a life. Self defense is taking a life, but it isn't murder. Abortion is legal thus nothing can or should be done to a woman who chooses to abort. we are not talking about a doctor who kills living babies, that is totally different. That is murder and he/she should get the same treatment. I happen to be pro life but I would never want to see a woman who decided to abort put to death.

As for the reason not being relevant, of course it should be. Our granddaughter when through this a couple of years ago. She was carrying a little girl with no forehead, no nose and a brain outside the skull. No one with any feelings could expect her to continue the pregnancy. Why she didn't miscarry was a puzzlement to her OB. This child would never have lived more than a few minutes after birth. I will add, our granddaughter and hubby are very religious and very much pro lifers. I would never group someone carrying a child like this in the same category as the woman who chooses not to give birth cause it isn't convenient.
There are pro-lifers right here on this forum who would tell you that your granddaughter murdered an innocent baby and that it should have been born.....no matter what.....that only "God" gets to make those decisions.

They would tell you that your granddaughter's "convenience" shouldn't have been put before that baby's right to be born.....regardless of the outcome.

If pro-lifers had their way.....your granddaughter would not have had a choice unless giving birth would have killed her.

That said, I am so sorry your granddaughter and your family had to go through that......but you did the right thing for everyone involved.

Last edited by Annie53; 05-11-2013 at 12:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,132 posts, read 13,381,269 times
Reputation: 20565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
In time they will look back at abortions as absolutely barbaric.
In time, they will look back on people owning guns as absolutely barbaric.

Checkmate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,737 posts, read 83,373,533 times
Reputation: 41575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
There are pro-lifers right here on this forum who would tell you that your granddaughter murdered an innocent baby and that it should have been born.....no matter what.....that only "God" gets to make those decisions.

They would tell you that your granddaughter's "convenience" shouldn't have been put before that baby's right to be born.....regardless of the outcome.

If pro-lifers had their way.....your granddaughter would not have had a choice unless giving birth would have killed her.

That said, I am so sorry your granddaughter and your family had to go through that......but you did the right thing for everyone involved.
and this is why I say I am pro life but on the fence. when I was much younger, lie 50 years ago, I was totally pro choice but only the first trimester. I do think abortion is overdone and should only be used in certain situations. I understand rape (though I do think actual rape is rare) I understand abortion when a teen is still a child herself (under 14) and when insist is the issue. Certainly when a baby has no chance of living a normal life and would be a burden to society and to him/herself. What I do not excuse, is third trimester abortions, but you and I have discussed this is the past. I also do not understand how any women can choose to use abortion as a form of birth control and yes, many do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 04:33 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,413 posts, read 9,112,178 times
Reputation: 4220
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
and this is why I say I am pro life but on the fence. when I was much younger, lie 50 years ago, I was totally pro choice but only the first trimester. I do think abortion is overdone and should only be used in certain situations. I understand rape (though I do think actual rape is rare) I understand abortion when a teen is still a child herself (under 14) and when insist is the issue. Certainly when a baby has no chance of living a normal life and would be a burden to society and to him/herself. What I do not excuse, is third trimester abortions, but you and I have discussed this is the past. I also do not understand how any women can choose to use abortion as a form of birth control and yes, many do.
I have always been prochoice, no one should have a legal say what any individual, male or female, can or cannot do with or to their body. I as a male would not want anyone to say I have to have a circumcision, or can't have a tattoo, nor should anyone have a say what any woman can do. But I do agree with you that any abortion used as a form of contraceptive in place of condoms, the pill, or any other convenient and available birth control is irresponsible and just plain old wrong. Unlike the 40's, 50's and early 60's, big families are not the rage and are too expensive to contemplate. Women no longer need to be tied to the home, barefoot and pregnant popping out one child after another, never being anything but a housewife, bottle washer, cook, maid and chauffeur. That was all my mom was, 7 kids and 4 miscarried from when she was 17 with the first and had her tubes tied at 31 after the last. I am against late term abortion and against abortion for birth control, but if a woman is not at the right time of her life to have a child or an additional one, that is hers and her choice alone to end a pregnancy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,009 posts, read 4,183,495 times
Reputation: 3017
"If abortion is murder, then what should we do to women who get abortions?"

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3.

Obviously, nothing would or could be done to women who had abortions while it was legal. If humanity can come to their senses and ban the institution of abortion like we did slavery, then and only then can you start talking punishment. Bare minimum punishment IMHO should be 10 years in prison. Anything less than that is an insult to the life they took.

The entire debate boils down to this:
Pro-Choice = "A woman's right to have sex > an unborn human being's right to live."
Pro-Live = "An unborn human being's right to live > A woman's right to have sex."


Imagine a mother of 5 who chains up her children in the basement and leaves them to die so she can go on a month-long sex binge at some distant destination. The children would all die of thirst or hunger or any number of other things. In that instance, we would not hesitate for an instant in convicting the woman of negligent homicide. The difference is that unborn babies have undergone a massive PR campaign of dehumanization. And by being massively inconvenient, the unborn child becomes the enemy. He or she might just ruin their mother's plans in life and this makes them the enemy. Much of society has come to accept that "a fetus" a.) isn't human and b.) in all cases of unwanted pregnancies, the fetus is the hated enemy. That is exactly the same two elements used to justify the Jewish Holocaust and every other mass-murder event in human history.

And we actually have the gall to consider ourselves enlightened that we'd never let a mass-extermination event happen again...

Abortion is much like medical marijuana: It has legitimate uses. Rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger. And it's completely nonsensical to require women to carry a dead or braindead baby to full term. These are all good and legitimate uses and they account for about 3% of all abortions annually. I'm happy to concede the 3%. And I'm all in favor of people using birth control to their heart's content. But what's happening to those remaining 97% of unborn human beings ain't right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,132 posts, read 13,381,269 times
Reputation: 20565
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
and this is why I say I am pro life but on the fence. when I was much younger, lie 50 years ago, I was totally pro choice but only the first trimester. I do think abortion is overdone and should only be used in certain situations. I understand rape (though I do think actual rape is rare) I understand abortion when a teen is still a child herself (under 14) and when insist is the issue. Certainly when a baby has no chance of living a normal life and would be a burden to society and to him/herself. What I do not excuse, is third trimester abortions, but you and I have discussed this is the past. I also do not understand how any women can choose to use abortion as a form of birth control and yes, many do.
Third trimester abortions are done to save the life of the mother or because the fetus is deformed. Some fetal deformities are not detected until the third trimester.

There are severe restrictions already in place on third trimester abortions.....a woman that far along cannot obtain a legal abortion at that stage just because she changed her mind......a FACT that pro-lifers refuse to acknowledge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2013, 05:01 PM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,525,923 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
Murder isn't legal in Australia, but abortion is. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, not a mindless parasitic clot of cells.

I love it when people dodge questions! Let me guess: you believe women who get abortions should be executed, right? You think women should be forced to give birth to children they don't want?
Thanks for being upfront about this issue. I think the more we all gloss over what "pro-lifers" really want, the more we legitimize their ideology and desire to take women's rights to their own bodies away from women. There's nothing nice about the "pro-life" movement. It's pure authoritarianism and misogyny, all rolled up in one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2013, 05:02 PM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,525,923 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
In time, they will look back on people owning guns as absolutely barbaric.

Checkmate.
Agreed! ^^^^
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:40 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top