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Old 05-02-2013, 11:13 AM
 
96 posts, read 58,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
The mass of Islamic orthodoxy and its scholars would disagree with you. You are not an expert on Islam, dont try to comment on it without knowledge.

Google Prof. Tariq Qadri who wrote a stinging fawta denouncing such idiocy. Also Tim Winter, Hamza Yusuf, Tariq Ramadan, Sh. Yaqoubi.

You dont know ish, foo'.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith V4B52N54: "The Prophet said... I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."


 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:13 AM
 
1,066 posts, read 1,111,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
No, and no. Suicide bombing against civilians to achieve anything is unjustifiable. Sorry, but I live in a nation of laws, where we rely upon the legal system to administer justice. As for wartime, have Westerners EVER, EVER engaged in suicide bombings against civilians? Did even the jews being slaughtered in Europe retaliate against german civilians? Did US colonialists suicide bomb the British during the War of Independence? Sorry but that is a non-Western tactic that I do not accept.
It wasn't a suicide bombing but...

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it was certainly bombing civilians, was it not?
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:13 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 807,593 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
You're the only one bringing the left/right paradigm into this. The fact is, 994 people polled from 21 countries is -not-a good sampling size, therefore this poll is pretty useless. There's no "emotion" in this statement. Just logic.
"Logic"? You're hilarious.

I'll ask again, who are YOU to question the sample size? Are you a statistician who worked on putting this poll together? Obviously not, so you are clearly NOT in a position to do so, and attacking the results of the poll is a sign of trolling/deflection tactics used by the left when one of their beloved constituents is exposed for what they are.
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:18 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 807,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
The mass of Islamic orthodoxy and its scholars would disagree with you. You are not an expert on Islam, dont try to comment on it without knowledge. Google Prof. Tariq Qadri who wrote a stinging fawta denouncing such idiocy. Also Tim Winter, Hamza Yusuf, Tariq Ramadan, Sh. Yaqoubi. You dont know ish, foo'.
The volume of islamic writings and writers justifying it is even larger. And I do know ish:

Istishhad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Another rationale provided for why istishhad is not against Islamic law is that the civilians caught in the crossfire "were destined to die". The Saudi exile Muhammad al-Massari explains that any civilian killed in an attack on the enemy "won't suffer [but instead]… becomes a martyr himself."[22] During the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war, Hezbollah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah "apologized" for an attack on Nazareth that killed two Israeli Arab children—but said the two children should be considered "martyrs."[23][24] Further justifications have been given by conservative Iranian cleric Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, "when protecting Islam and the Muslim community depends on martyrdom operations, it not only is allowed, but even is an obligation as many of the Shi'ah great scholars and Maraje', including Ayatullah Safi Golpayegani and Ayatullah Fazel Lankarani, have clearly announced in their fatwas."[25] Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran showered those who performed martyrdom operations during the Iran–Iraq War and against Israel with accolades. Indeed, Sayyed Abbas al-Musawi, the second Secretary General of Hezbollah and student of Khomeini, created a supplication that became popular among the Hezbollah youths and fighters.[26] Other clerics have supported suicide attacks largely in connection with the Palestinian issue. Prominent Sunni cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi has supported such attacks by Palestinians in perceived defense of their homeland as heroic and an act of resistance.[27] Shiite Lebanese cleric Muhammad Husayn Fadlallah, the spiritual authority recognized by Hezbollah is reported to have similar views.[28] Sayed Mohammed Musawi, head of the World Islamic League in London, condemned the London bombings, but insisted"There should be a clear distinction between the suicide bombing of those who are trying to defend themselves from occupiers, which is something different from those who kill civilians, which is a big crime."[29]
"
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:19 AM
 
96 posts, read 58,779 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
The volume of islamic writings and writers justifying it is even larger. And I do know ish:

Istishhad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Another rationale provided for why istishhad is not against Islamic law is that the civilians caught in the crossfire "were destined to die". The Saudi exile Muhammad al-Massari explains that any civilian killed in an attack on the enemy "won't suffer [but instead]… becomes a martyr himself."[22] During the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war, Hezbollah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah "apologized" for an attack on Nazareth that killed two Israeli Arab children—but said the two children should be considered "martyrs."[23][24] Further justifications have been given by conservative Iranian cleric Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, "when protecting Islam and the Muslim community depends on martyrdom operations, it not only is allowed, but even is an obligation as many of the Shi'ah great scholars and Maraje', including Ayatullah Safi Golpayegani and Ayatullah Fazel Lankarani, have clearly announced in their fatwas."[25] Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran showered those who performed martyrdom operations during the Iran–Iraq War and against Israel with accolades. Indeed, Sayyed Abbas al-Musawi, the second Secretary General of Hezbollah and student of Khomeini, created a supplication that became popular among the Hezbollah youths and fighters.[26] Other clerics have supported suicide attacks largely in connection with the Palestinian issue. Prominent Sunni cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi has supported such attacks by Palestinians in perceived defense of their homeland as heroic and an act of resistance.[27] Shiite Lebanese cleric Muhammad Husayn Fadlallah, the spiritual authority recognized by Hezbollah is reported to have similar views.[28] Sayed Mohammed Musawi, head of the World Islamic League in London, condemned the London bombings, but insisted"There should be a clear distinction between the suicide bombing of those who are trying to defend themselves from occupiers, which is something different from those who kill civilians, which is a big crime."[29]
"
In islamic doctrine, all lands in the world belong to "allah" and, thus, are occupied by infidels if not under muslim rule
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:20 AM
 
686 posts, read 955,924 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberline18 View Post
Sahih Bukhari Hadith V4B52N54: "The Prophet said... I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."

What is the chain of narration?

What is the exegesis of that hadith?

People like you make me laugh. Bookmarked a few websites and wanna come at us?

 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:22 AM
 
96 posts, read 58,779 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineComedy View Post
No.

But plenty (likely much more than 40%) of Americans certainly supported the bombing of civilians in defense of the country, did they not?
Not based on religious beliefs. Suicide bombing is religious-based, if you can classify islam a religion
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:23 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 807,593 times
Reputation: 589
Here's a nice scholarly article:

The Religious Foundations of Suicide Bombings: Islamist Ideology :: Middle East Quarterly
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:24 AM
 
1,731 posts, read 1,163,512 times
Reputation: 760
I thought it would be closer to 70%.
 
Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 AM
 
1,066 posts, read 1,111,893 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberline18 View Post
Not based on religious beliefs. Suicide bombing is religious-based, if you can classify islam a religion
I don't see the reason for that distinction.

It's unclear the exact poll question
[MOD CUT/hotlinking]
But it appears that the question included the idea of 'in defense of Islam'.

Similarly, I would imagine that much more than 40% of Americans supported the bombing of civilians in the defense of the ideas of "capitalism", "freedom", etc.

Last edited by Ibginnie; 05-02-2013 at 11:57 AM..
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