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Old 05-10-2013, 12:39 PM
 
1,657 posts, read 3,058,652 times
Reputation: 1820

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
It boils down to this. Most of the population of kids is exposed to other kids most of the weekday days. They are learning to socialize, and make their way through the circus that is life, and they're learning it from the ground up, from childhood on, with their peers. This is something that isn't learned in isolation with the nuclear family with the occasional tiny spurt of scheduled contact.

Kids having contact with other kids in school is particularly important because ours is an isolated society. People in the U.S. has grown increasingly isolated over history - isolated in the sense that it's just the nuclear family and other social contact is sporadic. Back "in the day" when kids received their schooling sparingly and once in a while at home (if the parents had some form of education), there were communities and kids were in constant contact with their peers anyway. Not so now. Now, everyone lives in relative isolation. If school is taken from kids, they grow up in isolation, no matter how many scheduled "social activities" there might be.

Homeschooling adds infinitely more isolation to kids' lives by denying the child the opportunity to be with peers all day long. It also denies kids the opportunity for kids to exercise their own decision making rather than be stuck at home with mommy, where every decision is decided by mom, commented on by mom, overseen by her, etc. In homeschooling there's a parental noose around kids' necks. This attitude that the mom standing by saying, "Nono, you decide!" just doesn't cut it. Kids need to learn how to function, and waiting until they're out of the kid years and into adulthood denies them. It's like keeping a child from learning to speak until he's older. It's not right.

Some kids should be kept at home - for example, kids that will not be able to function in the outside world and will require the care of others. Kids that are within normal functioning - no.

Hey, since you have a crystal ball that let's you see into the daily lives of every home schooled kid...would you mind asking it what the winning lotto numbers will be this weekend? I'll kick ya down some of the cash.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,693 posts, read 4,652,227 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Because our public school systems are doing just such an outstanding job!

Given the number of kids graduating from HS that are da*med near illeterate, why would you assume that parents are any LESS capable of educating their children than the public school system? Who is more motivated to do a good job? The people that brought the kid into this world, or the union worker fighting for more vacation and benefits with no accountability?
Oh please... we keep hearing about all of these SUPPOSED illiterate kids graduating from high school, but where are they? I sure haven't seen them. I have lived in many different towns and states, and the high schools are just fine everywhere I had been- sure you had some lazy burnout types of kids who would drop out, but anybody who made it to graduation was definitely deserving of it, having gone through rigorous testing, projects and assignments that required good reading and writing skills. I think we hear about a few random kids here and there in the national media who somehow get through without knowing how to read (or otherwise being of a horrible education level) and somehow the media has blown that out of proportion to make it seem like our entire education system is a mess and that this is how it is everywhere. That is absolutely ridiculous.
What is also ridiculous is that parents without an education background or degree can feel they are qualified to teach their kids at home, to give them the same fully well rounded education they would get in school. I knew a good number of kids that were home schooled when I was younger, and they were definitely not up to par with what the rest of us who were in actual school.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:21 PM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,519,408 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdmom View Post
So in the "real world" we only interact with our peers ? Is that what you're saying ? Uhhh, what drugs are you on !

I'm old, and I am still able to learn something new everyday. What I've learned today, sweetie, is that you do not have the first clue when it comes to the fundamentals of home schooling. Give it up already, your repugnance for home schooling is redundant and just plain weird.

No offense, but in real life if I had to socialize with you...I wouldn't. That makes me socially savvy...savvy.
No, but you're telling me that kids through 18 should only interact with their mom, unless it's some scheduled interaction under the supervision of a mom.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,693,338 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Wow.... you should seriously considering shortening what you write so people will actually care to read it...
Probably, but what I'm generally battling is cultural dogma, which is difficult to overcome with one sentence rebuttals. And one-sentence arguments leave the door open for easy counterarguments and nit-picking. I would rather take the time to explain myself and give facts and information. So that I don't come off as a partisan hack like the majority of the people in this forum. Who seem to only enjoy sitting around calling each other names.

I don't even see the point in coming to this forum if you don't want to have a real debate on an issue. So I assume that most people aren't here to debate, but rather just to complain, and call anyone who disagrees with them ignorant or hateful or selfish or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
No. Homeschooling isn't the answer. Plenty of developed nations have proved public schools are perfectly exceptional at educating people, even our public schools still produce some of the nations brightest.
Well, if we really look at the people actually running this country. They are overwhelmingly the product of private schools, not public schools. Public schools aren't there to train future leaders. They are there to train the future workers. Future leaders are taught in elite private schools.

This article talks about private and public schools. Of course, in Britain they tend to call them by a different name.

Britain still being run by a private school elite, study shows | Mail Online

For instance, in the article they reference Eton College. Which would make you believe it was talking about something like a Harvard type of school. But Eton college is actually more the equivalent of a high school, for boys aged 13-18.

Eton College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I think your argument seems to be, since basically all developed countries have publicly funded schools, that publicly funded must be a good thing. But that is only true if you can argue that public schools are what made those countries great in the first place, rather than being a byproduct of their success.

But really, this isn't even very complicated of an argument, because all you have to do is ask the question. Are private schools of a higher or lower quality than public schools? And everyone knows that private schools on average are much better than public schools. There is really no contest. A second question might be, would the quality of education on average go up if the entire system was privatized? Well, the obvious answer for anyone with any amount of logic, is a yes. I don't think anyone in their right mind, even crazy liberals, believes that public schools raise education standards.


So the reality is, if private schools(and homeschools) would provide better educations for children. Why does anyone actually support public schools? Even if you believe that all children should have access to an education. Why not just support school vouchers? Well, that is simple, because support for public schools has absolutely nothing to do with quality of education. Public school has everything to do with pro-American indoctrination and/or social-engineering.

If you look at the history of public schools. They were created for the purpose of assimilating immigrant children. They were created to teach immigrant children about American history, culture, and to teach them how to speak English. Because a lot of their immigrant parents did not speak English. If you think public schools were created for some benevolent reason, you are a fool. It has always been about pro-American indoctrination and social engineering, basically for the purpose of cultural assimilation. It was never ever about quality of education.

If you don't understand this reality, we need to understand why exactly we are having a discussion in this thread. It is about a German family who wants to homeschool their children, but in Germany, it is illegal to homeschool your children. And the question is, why does Germany make it illegal to homeschool children?

I bet you didn't realize that the German law prohibiting homeschool, came from Hitler's Germany. It was passed in 1938, to enforce cultural conformity. As Hitler's youth were being propagandized in public schools to be loyal to the German state, while learning state-sanctioned history. Because they did not want citizens with "separate philosophical convictions", from what was allowed by the central government.

Deportation of German homeschool family affects US homeschool freedom | Washington Times Communities

Court upholds Nazi-era ban on homeschooling

The German courts said that public schools are "Not only for the acquisition of knowledge, but also the integration into and first experience with society are important goals in primary school education”


That is the reality of public schools. It has absolutely nothing to do with education. It has everything to do with integrating individuals into the collective. And its not for the benefit of people, its for the benefit of the state.

And because of the conflict of interest, public-school teachers will necessarily be biased towards a larger role of government. The very existence of publicly-funded schools drives us in the direction of statism. It is unavoidable.

You can't have the government teaching kids, and expect the government not to teach your kids to be pro-government. The slow growth of the government has necessarily been the result of government education. And to prove my thesis, just ask yourself. If all kids had always been homeschooled, what would the role of government be today? And if all kids were homeschooled tomorrow, how many kids would be taught to trust the government to do much of anything?

Thus my conclusion is, homeschool is the path to freedom. Public school is the path to statism. It amazes me that anyone on the political right supports public school.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,217,889 times
Reputation: 14815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Given the number of kids graduating from HS that are da*med near illeterate, why would you assume that parents are any LESS capable of educating their children than the public school system?
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,249 posts, read 6,646,087 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This would be nothing more than sinister indoctrination.
I'm laughing at you. This case involves whither or not a German couple should get asylum in the US because Germany doesn't allow home schooling. That was it and it was nothing more. The law says to get asylum the couple would have to have reason to believe their lives were in danger if they stayed in Germany, which is preposterous, so their application for asylum was denied by the court.

How you can brainlessly extrapolate that into "sinister indoctrination" is beyond me and really your wild claim deserve nothing more than to be laughed at.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: WA
4,246 posts, read 7,823,145 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

Long libertarian rant.

Thus my conclusion is, homeschool is the path to freedom. Public school is the path to statism. It amazes me that anyone on the political right supports public school.
No, homeschooling is the path to keeping women locked back in the home, teaching addition to a 6 year old instead of doing something she wants to be doing.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:36 PM
 
8,399 posts, read 5,289,840 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This would be nothing more than sinister indoctrination.
Here is a hint whenever someone writes and article and they write that so and so said this paraphrasing the meaning of what so and so said, yet they don't supply the direct statement from so and so in the article, they are probably lying or not applying the proper context.

There is a German family seeking political asylum from Germany because they want to homeschool their children and apparently it is illegal in Germany.
The DOJ filed a brief in which Eric Holder made the point that he does not think our asylum laws are to be used to evade laws in your home country that you just don’t like

Eric Holder said nothing about homeschooling in America.

conservatives continue to drift further and further away from reality.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,249 posts, read 6,646,087 times
Reputation: 3497
Amen, Iamme73. You can see the right wing disconnect from reality every day here on CDF.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,693,338 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
No, homeschooling is the path to keeping women locked back in the home, teaching addition to a 6 year old instead of doing something she wants to be doing.
I don't like your use of the word "locked". But I would agree that women would probably spend a lot more time with their children in the absence of public schools. I'm sorry that women hate spending time with their children so much, that they just want to pawn them off on the government for free daycare.

You know, because being a mother is obviously no fun.
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