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Old 05-05-2013, 04:24 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,915 posts, read 8,632,530 times
Reputation: 8374

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The first 50 years of this nations existence. We lived under We The People. The Constitution was our soul.
Putting aside that today's Tea Party-tinged greed-oriented libertarianism was not the governing philosophy of our nation for its first fifty years, those first fifty years featured widespread slavery, and an average life expectancy of less than forty years. What's worse, life expectancy had a very large variance, very much tied to affluence. Does anyone really think that that's a ringing endorsement of those first fifty years? The right to life tied strongly to how rich you were. Reprehensible, by today's standards. We've become a better society, since then. We're more civilized, more moral, more compassionate. Folks shouldn't think that they will be able to drag society back into the cesspool of egoistic self-centeredness so easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
It's not that the GOP leadership isn't smart enough to win the election. It's that they DON'T WANT TO WIN AN ELECTION WITH A CANDIDATE THAT WILL CHANGE ANYTHING in our ultra-left Big Government.
Uh huh. That makes no sense. But thanks for trying to rationalize it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
On the other hand, if Libertarians want the privileges of political liberty without accepting the burdens of civic duty, then they are opposed to the republican form of government. Libertarians cannot succeed. For either one is a sovereign, served by government. Or one is a subject and servant of the government. You cannot participate in the democratic form as a Libertarian without surrendering one’s rights in exchange for political liberties.
Well said. Our founders were absolutely supporters of a republican form of government. They valued strongly their ties to the land and its people (albeit, at that time, just the white people ) and recognized and defended their conception of civic responsibility. If anything, the seed of today's greed-centric liberatarian claptrap started with those too self-centered to live in society with others, and instead left the eastern cities and become veritable hermits out "west". However, even asserting that is a pretty big stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly View Post
One of the main reasons why the Tea party won in 2010 was because Republicans successfully labeled Democrats as cutting Medicare benefits with the passage of the ACA. It wasn't so much of a libertarian revolution, than it was defending a liberal program. ... If anything, the 2010 midterms was a vote to maintain liberal policies, not to overturn them. Where Republicans sincere in defending Medicare and their attacks on Democrats cutting benefits? No, because as soon as Republicans took office, Paul Ryan drafted a bill with significant Republican support that would practically abolish Medicare as we know it. ... "Vote for me and I will abolish SS in the name of freedom!" Good luck with that platform.
Given that they effectively lied to win the 2010 election, what makes you think that being honest about their intentions is part of the game plan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
Like it or not, more socialized systems decide who gets care and who doesn't and the decisions are often based on political or mortality concerns (as opposed to strictly medical).
And the for profit system decides who gets treatment based on their ability pay. This idea that the free market system does not have death panels is absurd.
Beat me to it. +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyvern212 View Post
But when the dust settles I hope the other countries of the world looks back in at the United States and analyzes where it went wrong and how they can use the United States errors to their advantage so as to avoid the same fate.
I respect your desire to tell yourself this to help you sleep at night in the context of a nation that is moving in a direction you personally don't like. However, and surely not intended to disrupt your sleep but rather to provide balance to your bias, it is important to recognize that the establishment of this nation was, itself, part of a 400 year journey civilization is on. We've slowly but surely made life better for more people, and yes that often comes at the expense of those who would retain a better life for just themselves at the expense of their slaves of their plantation, the servants of their manor, the workers on the assembly line in their factor, and now, to the clueless sheep that no longer even realize that they're supporting their own unfair exploitation, accomplished through the crafty use of political power purchased with vast riches.

Now let's be clear: I'm not saying that the United States will be the one and only superpower forever more. But it isn't through enfranchising more and more of its people that the United States will face challenges. If anything, it is the fact that the United States is being obstructed from keeping up with the rest of the world, in this regard - the obstruction of the right-wingers to the nature course - that will present the United States its greatest detriments.

Regardless: Where is this new up-and-comer? What developing nation, out there, is aiming upward using some means contrary to the current direction of America? If these things you abhor were such anathemas to the future of a nation, you'd think you could rattle off a bunch of great examples of how other nations are using distinctly non-American models. The problem is, of course, that none of them are using a model akin to one you seem to prefer. Most of the other nations are either pursuing more liberal policies than the United States, or suffer the effects of rampant corruption or unrest due to the wide gap between rich and poor. Where is this shining city on the hill you are dreaming of, if not here in the United States? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I doubt I'll get a legitimate reply to my inquiry. If I get any reply, I would guess that you'll be unwilling to grant that the challenges that those nations face as a result of their direction are greater than ours, or that they actually practice more liberal policies than our United States do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyvern212 View Post
It's certainly no secret that people of African descent cannot lead a nation.
Okay, so you're saying that a nation needs to support racism to succeed. Uh huh. The rest of your comments were so morally bankrupt, that I think I'll end here. Most of us are going to sit through one sermon this morning; I don't suppose we need to sit through another, even if it is one of my masterpieces.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:09 AM
 
196 posts, read 96,078 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
After they stuffed a once Democrat, with Progressive values, in front of the Republicans in 2008 and said vote for this guy...... the Republican party has had a battle from within.

The people that are the voters saw it first hand. 2010 Mid Terms happened...... Outted in many primaries, the Republican party started to cull the Good `ol Boys, with the voice of the peoples vote.

Then the they did it again with a self admitted and I quote, " I'm a PROGRESSIVE Republican, and more good `ol Boys didn't make it past the primaries.

2012 saw many States turn GOP offices, to a more Constitutional view of the office, putting the career GOP hacks in the states, out to pasture.


We have always wondered, why we always got the same thing, no matter which party held the control.
Both party's evolved into the same thing... Progressive, with the Constitution standing in the way of their grand plans for a One World Order.


Now we have those standing up for the Constitution, the very chains the founders of this nation placed on the federal government so WE THE PEOPLE remained free with Liberty for ALL, gaining ground within the party that once stood for individual freedom. The blowback from the Progressives in both parties is telling us we are on the right track.
I knew something would have to give. Borrowing trillions from foreign banks and funneling it to the wealthy, i.e. "Trickle Down" or "Voodoo Economics" was nothing more than an attempt to turn our democracy into a Lord/Serf society. It's nearly there and the T Party won't even discuss changing the tax code to accomodate everyone...the way it used to be.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,752,889 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyvern212 View Post
There's too many non-whites in the United States now and that number will swell in the coming decades.

The GOP can't survive. In a multi-ethnic country like the United States, anti-immigration views can't exist.

They'll have to become Democrats with a different name.

The United States is changing extremely radically. Demographics is the key driver for this. Everything is changing. Politics, policy, culture. No country or civilization has undergone such a drastic change in such a short time frame as the United States is today.

Unfortunately, these new immigrants are very socialistic and communistic in their political and cultural beliefs that any sort of functional government can't exist in Washington anymore. It'll become a one party system essentially as the European demographic shrinks in number and hands the reins over to the non-white immigrants. Given this, the future is very uncertain.

But when the dust settles I hope the other countries of the world looks back in at the United States and analyzes where it went wrong and how they can use the United States errors to their advantage so as to avoid the same fate. Sort of how people and governments do today in regard to the Roman Empire. People study the Romans furiously to see where they went wrong and it was quite easy to figure that out. It was too big and too culturally and ethnically diverse. It was impossible for the Romans to rule over so many different people. Sort of like how the Soviet Union collapsed. The United States is on the same path sadly.

Learn from your mistakes humanity and move on! Immigration is not the answer to low birth rates, nor is it helpful to your economy when in the long run it only destroys through lack of cohesion.
ever stop to think this is what the Progressive/Marxist/Statist/Elitist want?

It occurs to me that it would be quite hard to impose dictatorial rule over a society united by common heritage, common history, common ideals and a love of liberty.

It's a lot easier to rule with an iron fist when the nation is divided by sectarian and ethnic strife, and reeling from the collapse of a welfare state. A divided republic cannot stand

The irony is, the Communist goal is going to leave the party members in charge of 6 billion poor prisoners. At least in the VERY end... The enemies of freedom will be kings, ruling over a kingdom of ****.

I wonder if they will be baffled about the death of the shining cities they saw themselves commanding when they started their war on humanity and freedom, but then again they wont win.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:26 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,915 posts, read 8,632,530 times
Reputation: 8374
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
It's a lot easier to rule with an iron fist when the nation is divided by sectarian and ethnic strife, and reeling from the collapse of a welfare state.
Which explains why the ethnically diverse United States has had one party control over both the executive and legislative branch for fifty years while comparatively ethnically uniform China has had both its executive and legislative branch change hands frequently over that period of time.

Oh wait, that isn't what happened.



What's the next bit of vacuous nonsense you're going to try to pitch up against the wall?
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 869,887 times
Reputation: 217
It is good the see the GOP turning their backs on criminals (like Romney), and their Zionist backers...
If that is indeed what is now happening
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,980 posts, read 32,725,867 times
Reputation: 27492
There's barely any difference between Republicans and Democrats nowadays, but Libertarians definitely are not Republicans. Many people who hold Libertarian beliefs on social issues, like myself, usually vote Democrat...not Republican.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Texas State Fair
8,566 posts, read 9,648,828 times
Reputation: 4227
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
There's barely any difference between Republicans and Democrats nowadays, but Libertarians definitely are not Republicans. Many people who hold Libertarian beliefs on social issues, like myself, usually vote Democrat...not Republican.
But a Libertarian would vote based on Constitutional values. You're fairly free to live your social values without government interference. Do you want an out of control government that regulates your living standards? Or your privilege to socialize according to your political preferences?
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:35 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,915 posts, read 8,632,530 times
Reputation: 8374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willsson View Post
But a Libertarian would vote based on Constitutional values.
The old "money is more important that life" approach to liberatarianism. It's pretty rare to see someone claiming to be a libertarian willing to admit that as you effectively have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willsson View Post
You're fairly free to live your social values without government interference.
But it's okay if anyone else interferes. Uh huh.

Ridiculous.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,980 posts, read 32,725,867 times
Reputation: 27492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willsson View Post
But a Libertarian would vote based on Constitutional values. You're fairly free to live your social values without government interference.
You think so? I don't.

Quote:
Do you want an out of control government that regulates your living standards? Or your privilege to socialize according to your political preferences?
That's what we have now, so no.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:39 AM
 
3,846 posts, read 1,956,853 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
It's not that the GOP leadership isn't smart enough to win the election. It's that they DON'T WANT TO WIN AN ELECTION WITH A CANDIDATE THAT WILL CHANGE ANYTHING in our ultra-left Big Government.
The distinguishment between FRIENDLY FIRE and FRIENDLY OPPOSITION.
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