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Old 05-05-2013, 08:13 PM
 
8,100 posts, read 4,997,740 times
Reputation: 1578

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Again, why do you people seem to think you can force kids to be gay? You can't, and you most certainly can't during an hour or so during some kind of school assembly. There isn't a big enough face-palm for this kind of thinking.
why are you strawmanning me? Where do I say anywhere in this thread that I think this will make kids gay?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,097 posts, read 13,480,618 times
Reputation: 5771
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
The Penallty: Your on ignore and none of your posts will be read from this contribution for 3 full days, which included this above.
For this to be a punishment, I would think that the poster in question would have to find your responses worthwhile. I see no indication that that is true.

Oh, and it's "you're".
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,097 posts, read 13,480,618 times
Reputation: 5771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
why are you strawmanning me? Where do I say anywhere in this thread that I think this will make kids gay?
So why all the fear and outrage again? No one was molested or hurt, and the gist of the posting seems to be about how bad exposure to anything related to homosexuality is for kids. So if you're not worried about them turning gay, then the only other conclusion is that you personally don't like the idea of kids being more accepting of something you vehemently disagree with.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: TX
6,491 posts, read 5,236,349 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Yes...I have a huge problem with it.... I can teach these things to my children just fine as I am a parent of three..I know a few things
I'm sorry, that's no reason to have a problem with such curriculum being mandatory... at all. I would LOVE to see this curriculum become mandatory for all students sometime before they graduate and step into the real world. These things shouldn't be based on what you or I know, but on what we can expect all the others to learn from their parents as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
and I definitely know more than a possible teacher with none or some makeshift board of that put together the curriculum with a cookie cutter....
Given the following quote, I almost HAVE to doubt that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Exactly what class would this be taught in? Are we talking about the physical duties of raising a baby? Well...it takes about 5 minutes to show somebody how to change a diaper, hold a bottle and feed one...maybe another 5 to give them a bath...

What else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Just teach my kids math and science, please...
Gawd, I hope that never happens. Kids need so much more education than that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Yes, we can do with a great deemphasis on History and more focus on maths and sciences..
That's insane! You could've at least attacked the fine arts first! And there's no WAY science is more important than Health/P.E., IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
It seems you are a fan of revisionist history....and after a certain point ALL history becomea revisionist. I don't know what to tell you?? I'm sorry? LOL
Well, that's a START...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
No...there is just LOGIC.. One parent of 3 (or one) can do a better job of instilling values than one teacher of 30. Not to mention qualities that make people different and interesting. It's bad enough the public school system pumps knowledge into our children production line style....now you want them to shape their values the same way? LOL
Didn't say that; that's just another hallucination on your part, "LOL". And the funny thing about logic with no prior knowledge (no evidence, as I pointed out) is that it can be twisted to argue just about anything. But to be fair, I agree with you that a parent CAN do a better job than a teacher; but I don't think many of them ARE. And that's not just a problem for their particular families; it's a problem for society as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
It might work best for.Group A because they might be lost from the jump as it is. I.vthis case it's relative...you know? Like ANYTHING may be better than nothing at all?

This is getting painful LOL
But the question you've continuously failed to answer is simply, "What's the harm in these values being reiterated to those students whose parents have already taught them?" What are you afraid of, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
I'm way ahead of the game. And three times over. You haven't dealt with anything aside from filling up a sippy cup and the struggles of potty training. But if you feel you're on equal footing....*shrugs*
I prefer to compare arguments rather than accomplishments, particularly when the summary of my opposition's arguments are the words "Just because".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
You know what else causes crime and violence? Statutory monopolistic law. Passive aggressive people who push their prefernece through these forced laws and so forth and so on...
I'm afraid you're gonna have to be more specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
how is life a biological need? LOL
...So glad you're laughing; I would've been really concerned if that question wasn't a joke...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
People have adopted the value of heterosexuality as right and homosexuality as wrong through logic!
Oh, it's certainly a personal value that "homosexuality is wrong", there's no arguing that. But what makes it an entirely made up idea instead of a discovery is that it's logic WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE (At this point, it's not the least bit ironic that you forgot that phrase). Oh, there have been claims that homosexuality does this harm and that harm, but none of them are supported by consistent evidence from reliable sources. None. If you care to argue that, please be specific and provide references, thank you.

You're not off to a good start, talking of the fact that homosexual sex cannot produce offspring, I will say that. That doesn't make it wrong by a long shot. What else do you have?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:29 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,678,304 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post

two girls were told to stand in front of the class and pretend they were lesbians on a date.


Why was it even considered in the first place? Forced or not? Do you really think this is appropriate? Really?
exactly and even more, and.. everyone seems to be trying to mental block the whole thing with every excuse under the sun, all thats missing and prob on the way is that it was only a movie or something. I think a dept store should come out with a new tee shirt, teachers and supt's who want to create a sexual envior with the youngsters, belong in crow bar hotel. If things are not nipped in the bud, they will be doing more and more and more. These teachers need a good lesson, go watch somewhere else and never mind the youngsters. If you don't have the ability to teach healthy normal living without creating a sexual mating suggestive classroom involving the youngsters, including abnormal science contradictory mating...go get a job filling gas or something. Thats my 2 cents worth and all these teachers who need a sex therapist deserve. Adults are responsible for their actions.

Last edited by stargazzer; 05-05-2013 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
 
8,100 posts, read 4,997,740 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
I'm sorry, that's no reason to have a problem with such curriculum being mandatory... at all. I would LOVE to see this curriculum become mandatory for all students sometime before they graduate and step into the real world. These things shouldn't be based on what you or I know, but on what we can expect all the others to learn from their parents as well.



Given the following quote, I almost HAVE to doubt that.





Gawd, I hope that never happens. Kids need so much more education than that!



That's insane! You could've at least attacked the fine arts first! And there's no WAY science is more important than Health/P.E., IMO.



Well, that's a START...



Didn't say that; that's just another hallucination on your part, "LOL". And the funny thing about logic with no prior knowledge (no evidence, as I pointed out) is that it can be twisted to argue just about anything. But to be fair, I agree with you that a parent CAN do a better job than a teacher; but I don't think many of them ARE. And that's not just a problem for their particular families; it's a problem for society as a whole.



But the question you've continuously failed to answer is simply, "What's the harm in these values being reiterated to those students whose parents have already taught them?" What are you afraid of, exactly?

Ii

I prefer to compare arguments rather than accomplishments, particularly when the summary of my opposition's arguments are the words "Just because".



I'm afraid you're gonna have to be more specific.



...So glad you're laughing; I would've been really concerned if that question wasn't a joke...



Oh, it's certainly a personal value that "homosexuality is wrong", there's no arguing that. But what makes it an entirely made up idea instead of a discovery is that it's logic WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE (At this point, it's not the least bit ironic that you forgot that phrase). Oh, there have been claims that homosexuality does this harm and that harm, but none of them are supported by consistent evidence from reliable sources. None. If you care to argue that, please be specific and provide references, thank you.

You're not off to a good start, talking of the fact that homosexual sex cannot produce offspring, I will say that. That doesn't make it wrong by a long shot. What else do you have?
two things.....two things that this really boiling down too...

#1 - you don't say "well parents mostly suck" so let's incorporate life skills into the curriculum.

a. You don't entrust an entity that ALREADY sucks (the public school system) with a bigger workload. To incorporate this curriculum you will have to take away from the current curriculum OR extend the school day....and that is DEFINITELY not something anybody with a shred of family values would advocate.

b. It de-emphasizes the focus on PARENTING. And just shuffles the deck chairs. From one bad parent to one bad institution.

#2 - There is no RIGHT or WRONG..where does "right" or "wrong" come from? You still have yet to answer this with anything but hot air.

"respect for life" doesn't mean anything...that's a value. If I respect my life...why do I have to respect yours? That is the same logic as "treat others as you want to be treated"...Jesus said that but he only said you were going to hell if you didn't....

I do agree with treating others as you wish to be treated...but that is only because it is MY PERSONAL VALUE.

If Hitler killed 6 million Jews...why was that WRONG. You would be right if you said it was a brutal thing to do....but why was it WRONG?

Experience, knowledge and logic from previous events and discoveries only take part in shaping your values. It doesn't dictate what you SHOULD do..outside of man created law which is also preference.

When you talk in terms of right and wrong you are no longer talking about values....you are talking about morals. So where do they come from?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:14 PM
 
9,294 posts, read 4,274,178 times
Reputation: 11031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

That is not what I'm disagreeing with. I'm challenging the entirely unfounded claim that people who stand for gay rights want anything more than exactly that: equality for homosexuals to marry and adopt. It's not my "view" that carries the burden of proof; it's the view that the fight for gay rights is about something more.
Forgive me for pointing this out, but that is not what you said.

Denial of a "gay agenda" has nothing to do with your beliefs on the merit or lack thereof of homosexual rights. Nor can it be solely looked at through the most recent political lens.
Furthermore, you cannot speak for the entire homosexual movement as to their motivations/intentions, regardless of whether you are homosexual or not.
Some homos might want the same things as heteros as you referenced. Yet still others want to destroy the very notion of marriage, or any traditional norm that is based on religious teachings. The reason for this is obvious to all but the most ardent apologists.

The bottom line is that whether you believe in "homosexual rights" within the societal norms of American lifestyles or not, it cannot be denied that there is in fact a homosexual agenda.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:16 PM
 
8,100 posts, read 4,997,740 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
So why all the fear and outrage again? No one was molested or hurt, and the gist of the posting seems to be about how bad exposure to anything related to homosexuality is for kids. So if you're not worried about them turning gay, then the only other conclusion is that you personally don't like the idea of kids being more accepting of something you vehemently disagree with.
No, I don't like kids being more accepting of things I disagree with by means of propaganda and social conditioning.

And the same holds true for things I DO agree with.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:17 PM
 
8,100 posts, read 4,997,740 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
What the heck are you rambling about ? what is your understanding in the origin and nature of morality.
There is no such thing as a moral.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:24 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,678,304 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
There is no such thing as a moral.
Too bad , its in the dict along with huge use defining and interconnecting with many other words,
seems like you may be up against it on this one, good luck.

moral : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical <moral judgments>
b : expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem>
c : conforming to a standard of right behavior
d : sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation>
e : capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>
2
: probable though not proved : virtual <a moral certainty>
3
: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect <a moral victory> <moral support>
— mor·al·ly adverb
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