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Old 11-01-2007, 09:46 AM
dgz
 
806 posts, read 3,386,951 times
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Any presidential candidate who equates terminating a mistake with 'surrendering' is not someone I would vote for. The last thing this country needs are more simple-minded jingoists going into the White House. This country is already a laughing stock and when i travel through other countries, frankly... I feel embarrassed. I want that to change. I want to feel like i can live in a country that sets a positive example in the world... A light on a hill. We have wealth, universities, and a population with great potential. There is no reason we can't have this.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,284,822 times
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Originally Posted by dgz View Post
Any presidential candidate who equates terminating a mistake with 'surrendering' is not someone I would vote for. The last thing this county needs are more simple-minded jingoists going into the White House. This country is already a laughing stock and when i travel through other countries, frankly... I feel embarrassed.
<Shrug> Check out their positions on Iraq, then.

However, some good news: the international media will like Hillary better, and you won't have to feel embarrassed. (How stressful that must be.)

But we'll still be in Iraq for a long time.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dgz View Post
Are you referring to Iraq? Leaving Iraq right now would not be a surrender. It would be the termination of a mistake committed by an administration that was acting solely for the benefit of corporate interests. Profiteering at its finest.
Actually I was referring to the attempted Bush monarchy via signing statements, executive orders and any other reason he can find to subvert the Congress and consolidate power in the executive branch. Never underestimate those who feel chosen by God to act on his behalf for the good of his obedient and loyal following of emotionally driven cowards.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,284,822 times
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Actually I was referring to the attempted Bush monarchy via signing statements, executive orders and any other reason he can find to subvert the Congress and consolidate power in the executive branch. Never underestimate those who feel chosen by God to act on his behalf for the good of his obedient and loyal following of emotionally driven cowards.
Consolidating power in the executive branch, while ill-advised and possibly illegal, hardly rises to the level of seeking to install a monarchy.

Arguing that it does constitutes intellectual dishonesty -- and a kind of emotional cowardice of its own.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:21 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,584 posts, read 21,356,616 times
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“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
I think that sums it up,don't want to lay your life down for liberty?With a attitude like that we wouldn't even have this country.Though this whole thread is "pretend" because if tanks and guards ever really did hit the street only then would we find out just what gonads we really have and that includes me.Though I think my conscience would rule my fear.

another good quote fromWinston Churchill here.....

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:28 AM
 
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This post was neither directed towards any one party. In fact, I would say it is directed at both, since both parties are increasing in corruption and decreasing the amount of civil liberties we have. The republicans in office are a potential democrat in office's best friend. And vise versa.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:37 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
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Originally Posted by jak88 View Post
This post was neither directed towards any one party. In fact, I would say it is directed at both, since both parties are increasing in corruption and decreasing the amount of civil liberties we have. The republicans in office are a potential democrat in office's best friend. And vise versa.
that's true,corruption and abuse of power can come from any one or party
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:45 AM
 
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Though I think my conscience would rule my fear.
I have found that when confronted with harsh adversity, the paralysis of fear abates rather quickly.

I would be more worried about the chicken hawk types who would rather abide by an enabling act than their own Constitution.

Shown below is an actual pamphlet issued by the Phoenix branch of the FBI. While much of the notes are things most anyone can agree with, also note that quoting the Constitution can get you noticed by the government as a subversive.

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Old 11-01-2007, 11:01 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I have found that when confronted with harsh adversity, the paralysis of fear abates rather quickly.

I would be more worried about the chicken hawk types who would rather abide by an enabling act than their own Constitution.

Shown below is an actual pamphlet issued by the Phoenix branch of the FBI. While much of the notes are things most anyone can agree with, also note that quoting the Constitution can get you noticed by the government as a subversive.

yeah rather amazing.Of course there are some out there that belive the time is now to start insurection,I don't agree with that,I think any such action would have to be in a extreme dire situation,not something "likely to happen but..

Churchills quote is telling also though,that those who are not willing to stand up for freedom when it can be done peacefully for instance voting smartly,may have been able to avoid any dire situation from ever esculating.
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:09 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,169,690 times
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
yeah rather amazing.Of course there are some out there that belive the time is now to start insurection,I don't agree with that,I think any such action would have to be in a extreme dire situation,not something "likely to happen but..

Churchills quote is telling also though,that those who are not willing to stand up for freedom when it can be done peacefully for instance voting smartly,may have been able to avoid any dire situation from ever esculating.
At this point in time I believe we are far from having to resort to such extremes but I also do not discount histories teachings, which for me are to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

In order for our Republic to operate and function at its best, it requires an informed, educated and civic minded population that participates. Through various means we have become a people complacent, apathetic, and disconnected with the social and political processes that are needed in order to keep us from regressing into something less.

The government will remain in check and function properly if the people also push back and assert their liberties and rights as well. As someone once said, you may not pay attention to politics but politics will certainly pay attention to you. (or something to that effect)

Last edited by TnHilltopper; 11-01-2007 at 12:01 PM..
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