Responsible Gun Ownership. Does it exist? (drug, death, propaganda, depression)

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by Little-Acorn

That's a joke, right?

My daughter has had her gun in her room in her closet, since she was 7.
Now at 15, she has 3 in there, including a .38 revolver, loaded with hollow points.

[Bulldogdad]

1) Personally I prefer the thumb over thumb hold.

I am a responsible person. My guns are just like any other property I own.

[Gungnir]

Well to be fair to the OP, I think there is a confusion that begins in the first posting... here's the line.

Originally Posted by mohawkx

So I must ask the question. For all you who believe in the 2nd amendment as your guiding principle and own firearms, as a group what responsibilities do you feel you have to society with your gun ownership? Do you or the NRA have ANY responsibility to society at all or is your only responsibility to the 2nd amendment?

Which of course is a confusion because there is responsibility to society, and personal responsibility and the two are very distinct, however there is an interaction, poor personal responsibility can lead to failure to uphold your responsibilities to society, and society can lead to failure to uphold (by choice or coerced) your personal responsibilities.

This is why I'm a firm believer that societal responsibility is completely agnostic of gun ownership (or any ownership of anything that is not mandatory). Since societal responsibility is by nature the responsibilities we expect all members of society to uphold. Since gun ownership is not a requirement, nor is it prohibited then it cannot be a social responsibility (either positively or negatively).

Personal responsibilities by definition are personal, your personal responsibilities may be you don't smoke, don't drink, don't cheat on your partner, don't lie, etc. As well as accepting responsibility for certain behaviors, for example self defense, self development and eating bacon.

So when asked "what responsibilities do you feel you have to society with your gun ownership?" the answer is clearly no more and no less than a non-gun owner. Since there is no requirement to have (or have not) a gun in our society, by definition there is no social responsibility, it's purely personal, and acting or failing to act within the boundaries of your personal responsibility can cause you to violate or uphold your social responsibilities, but those responsibilities are still identical to someone who is not a gun owner.

Thus when someone says "as a group what responsibilities do you feel you have to society" in the context of what is a responsible gun owner, it's one who acts in such a way that the societal responsibilities are not violated. It really is that simple.

[BentBow]

Over protective sheltered lives we must live.....
It is very irresponsible as an American, under the constitution, not to teach your children to handle a firearm... for what they are intended for. Personal liberty, not to murder and the liberty of the USA, not to force our will on others, without being threatened, or attacked.

[Electron]

Originally Posted by BentBow

Over protective sheltered lives we must live.....
It is very irresponsible as an American, under the constitution, not to teach your children to handle a firearm... for what they are intended for. Personal liberty, not to murder and the liberty of the USA, not to force our will on others, without being threatened, or attacked.

.....and fer fetchin supper. I always tell folks, I didn't kid proof my guns, I idiot proofed my kids

[Mac_Muz]

Originally Posted by mohawkx

Respectfully, I would disagree with that statement. I have many firearms and have been a collector for 35 years. I also have a CCW permit that was issued by the Arizona State Police, commonly known as DPS.
Gun owners have a greater responsibility to society than the rest of the citizenry,IMO. Why would a person applying for a permit to carry concealed in public have to go through 16 hours of classroom work and 8 hours of range time? These are things no ordinary citizen must go through.
It is becoming more apparent as this thread goes on that gun rights advocates don't feel any special obligation or responsibility to the general society for carrying around a loaded weapon. All I'm getting is deflection, personal attacks and "Same as any other citizen."

Now there is a problem..... Since Cops commonly break all kinds of law during the ordinary work day. I see cops breaking traffic laws almost any time i leave this place. banging dangerous U turns to catch some offender over a minor traffic violation if there even was.


Last week at dusk, in moose country on my bike a statie banged a U turn behind me to pull the guy i was following doing 5 MPH under the limit over. The damned State Police almost killed me and my wife to pull that stunt.

I almost stopped myself to arrest that fool.

Do cops have any greater responsibility? They should and they should not be above the law either.

Passing a state test is one thing, here in NH the local Chief has the say, which is somewhat more personal.

I don't see gun owners having any more or less responsibility to abide law than any one else.

And the way i see things i keep the gun i will carry loaded, and take it everywhere on my body. That counts the post office. What am i supposed to do? Get off the bike or get out of the truck and make some display of removing my fire arm right when I may need it the most?

Same thing if I go to Boston Mass...... I am far more likely to get car jacked in and around Boston than i am at home.

There is no way I will surrender my fire arm to anyone cops or crooks as they are both the same thing.

The Federal law states that if i am legal where I am and will be legal where i end up I am legal to travel. That's good enough for me.

Good guy or bad guy if you frig around with me and make me fear for my life someone ain't goin' home for dinner.....
I am the same way armed or not.... Well maybe not, as i am more polite armed face to face than i am not.

I used to keep my NH version of the ccw in a clear wallet window but don't since the cops made a point and issue of it last year.

They took the sight of that permit as a sign that they could illegally search my vehicle, when I wasn't in the vehicle in the first place.

They didn't get to search either, and i was some miffed.

If cops want any respect then they must also abide the LAW.

Another point on that CCW is my first came from Mass.... The chief there blew out his own brains with his service side arm shortly after i was issued my permit inside of 3 days. At the time local customs was 3 + weeks to be served.

That was Mass though circa 1976. What 200 hundred years of silly Mass BS can accomplish eh?

i had to have a 'need' back then..... my need was having 1/2 dozen hand guns i was going to use whether the cops and Mass liked it or not. I bought these guns living in Fla legally.

The cops asked how i got the guns into Mass I smuggled them over the border.... Yeah there was a sign on I-90 which they mentioned and my reply was I didn't think I was supposed to pull over and dump the guns on the ground by that sign..... That's why I am here requesting my permit now.

If you let the system steamroll over you it sure as hell will.


Ordinary citizen! I am an ordinary citizen and have been back ground checked more than 100 times to buy guns and was finger printed like a criminal to sell guns in a gun store!

Then here telling of a refusal to serve a customer, some grabber told me i can't do that!

The customer i refused was a nut case and he wanted a .357 hand gun and just one bullet.

I kicked him out of the shop and warned him to never come back. That guy never held a gun in his hand in the shop.

Another thing I didn't understand working in the shop was when my motorcycle was parked just outside the window customers would throw a leg over and pretend to ride it!

I have no idea about why, but in general it is poor taste and can get bikers a tad upset, so don't do it.

So IMO ordinary citizen's need to take on some personal responsibility too!

Last, I don't go around telling other people how to live or to carry or not carry a gun. So I don't really expect anyone to tell me what to do or to carry or not a gun.

But I am growing some weary of the grabbers who do. And for that I will open carry in NH all bike season this year. If tourists don't like it it's just too bad.

[Mac_Muz]

Originally Posted by Electron

.....and fer fetchin supper. I always tell folks, I didn't kid proof my guns, I idiot proofed my kids

Like the way you worded that.......

[gunlover]

Originally Posted by Electron

.....and fer fetchin supper. I always tell folks, I didn't kid proof my guns, I idiot proofed my kids

Not possible..Nature will always designed a better idiot, case in point the leftist in America..Devolution is not just a theory.

[Pahn]

I'm a leftist and I own guns. They're locked in a safe and kept away from prying eyes and hands when not in use. I follow all relevant laws and safety procedures in their use and transport. What more responsibility do I have?

[gunlover]

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Well to be fair to the OP, I think there is a confusion that begins in the first posting... here's the line.



Which of course is a confusion because there is responsibility to society, and personal responsibility and the two are very distinct, however there is an interaction, poor personal responsibility can lead to failure to uphold your responsibilities to society, and society can lead to failure to uphold (by choice or coerced) your personal responsibilities.

This is why I'm a firm believer that societal responsibility is completely agnostic of gun ownership (or any ownership of anything that is not mandatory). Since societal responsibility is by nature the responsibilities we expect all members of society to uphold. Since gun ownership is not a requirement, nor is it prohibited then it cannot be a social responsibility (either positively or negatively).

Personal responsibilities by definition are personal, your personal responsibilities may be you don't smoke, don't drink, don't cheat on your partner, don't lie, etc. As well as accepting responsibility for certain behaviors, for example self defense, self development and eating bacon.

So when asked "what responsibilities do you feel you have to society with your gun ownership?" the answer is clearly no more and no less than a non-gun owner. Since there is no requirement to have (or have not) a gun in our society, by definition there is no social responsibility, it's purely personal, and acting or failing to act within the boundaries of your personal responsibility can cause you to violate or uphold your social responsibilities, but those responsibilities are still identical to someone who is not a gun owner.

Thus when someone says "as a group what responsibilities do you feel you have to society" in the context of what is a responsible gun owner, it's one who acts in such a way that the societal responsibilities are not violated. It really is that simple.

Such epic win...


Amen about that, I eat my fair share of bacon!