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I was just reading an article in the L.A. Times about LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified), and apparently teachers can get LIFETIME healthcare benefits (who wouldn't lust after a job that offered that?).
To be fair, I also heard they start out making chump change money... 29K (which, in Los Angeles, is virtually poverty level). Are teachers paid too much? I don't know. But they shouldn't complain about anything right now considering so many people can't find jobs...
If one is going to consider teachers compensation they should look at the cost of living in the area, insurance benefits, pensions, as well as salary, even job security is worth something. Some teachers are worth their weight in gold and are really inspiring people while others simply don't belong in the profession. There's obviously waste in the educational system but I don't think it's on the teachers (although... lifetime healthcare benefits w/ pensions... damn... that's some compensation... just saying...).
You guys want to know what is needed to square away our schools. Nothing if we had quality parents, but that aint gonna happen, so here goes.
First, changes need to be made to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, after a additional effort is made to save them. Teacher get hired, get by, needs help and there is none. The befrazzeled Principle, even if he/she has a VP is spread so thin that building a case in next to impossible with all the student-parent driven issues that command priority. This inept teacher just stays there and gets in enough time it makes it very hard to fire her/him.
Many schools have up to 70 teachers 850 students (elementary) and only a principal. Just how in the hell can you supervise 70 employees, not to mention caferteria staff, office staff, custotial staff and so forth? So before any of you cuss administrators think about private industry and show me an industry that has a ratio of boss to employee with nothing in between of 70 to one, 35 to one.
Next we need to start teachers in this bad economy at between $55 and 65k. Make the job pay and the good ones will come, and they will fight to keep the job. You get what you pay for. This would be an easy tradeoff between the Unions and Associations for more freedom of administrators to terminate.
Next, large school districts should have "storm troopers" that are administrators to come in to a troubled school and assist the existing administrative staff solve problems, up to and including multiple terminations, and adminstrators not be off limits. For real troubled schools they may be needed for a full year, but all schools in the district should have these people inside at least 6 weeks for evauation purposes every few years.
Next, it needs to be easier to deal with problem students, parent objections not withstanding. If little Johnny is an ass then give him a vaccination he will not forget or put him in an alternative school until he is broke. 3% of the kids should not stop the learning process and rob 70% of a teachers time. Normal, well behaved kids that want to learn have rights too.
Until this country ante's up the money necessary to fund public schools properly, you are going to see more of the same.
BTW, My wife was a Principal for 3 years, she ask to go back to the classroom. Miserable job, 675 or so students, 60 teachers and staff, less than worthless VP and her going back was the best 10-15k per year we ever lost. She is not as hard as I am, I could have handled it. That VP would have cried all day, cried herself to sleep, and woke up crying and drove to work with depression and dread while working for me until she found a way out. I can pick a fight and I can damn sure make someone's life miserable. Hell, I have done that for bad bosses, much less subordinatess
So there you have it, I think if these changes were implimented then our public schools would recover to be the worlds envy in just a few years.
I was just reading an article in the L.A. Times about LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified), and apparently teachers can get LIFETIME healthcare benefits (who wouldn't lust after a job that offered that?).
To be fair, I also heard they start out making chump change money... 29K (which, in Los Angeles, is virtually poverty level). Are teachers paid too much? I don't know. But they shouldn't complain about anything right now considering so many people can't find jobs...
If one is going to consider teachers compensation they should look at the cost of living in the area, insurance benefits, pensions, as well as salary, even job security is worth something. Some teachers are worth their weight in gold and are really inspiring people while others simply don't belong in the profession. There's obviously waste in the educational system but I don't think it's on the teachers (although... lifetime healthcare benefits w/ pensions... damn... that's some compensation... just saying...).
I retired from AT&T at 56 with 30 years service as an ordinary telephone man, I have life time medical for myself and my wife...as long as I am alive. Should not all Americans have medical care as a right not as a privilidge?
You guys want to know what is needed to square away our schools. Nothing if we had quality parents, but that aint gonna happen, so here goes.
Truer words were never posted.
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First, changes need to be made to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers, after a additional effort is made to save them. Teacher get hired, get by, needs help and there is none. The befrazzeled Principle, even if he/she has a VP is spread so thin that building a case in next to impossible with all the student-parent driven issues that command priority. This inept teacher just stays there and gets in enough time it makes it very hard to fire her/him.
Many schools have up to 70 teachers 850 students (elementary) and only a principal. Just how in the hell can you supervise 70 employees, not to mention caferteria staff, office staff, custotial staff and so forth? So before any of you cuss administrators think about private industry and show me an industry that has a ratio of boss to employee with nothing in between of 70 to one, 35 to one.
Can't disagree with much of what you say, but who determines which teacher is a "bad" teacher?
I don't have a lot of faith in the judgment of principals. Too often they are bad teachers who have managed to get out of the classroom.
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Next we need to start teachers in this bad economy at between $55 and 65k. Make the job pay and the good ones will come, and they will fight to keep the job.You get what you pay for. This would be an easy tradeoff between the Unions and Associations for more freedom of administrators to terminate.
Absolutely correct.
Quote:
Next, large school districts should have "storm troopers" that are administrators to come in to a troubled school and assist the existing administrative staff solve problems, up to and including multiple terminations, and adminstrators not be off limits. For real troubled schools they may be needed for a full year, but all schools in the district should have these people inside at least 6 weeks for evauation purposes every few years.
Another good suggestion, but you and I both know that the politics of all school districts would continue to protect the inept, be they in the classroom or in the front office.
Quote:
Next, it needs to be easier to deal with problem students, parent objections not withstanding. If little Johnny is an ass then give him a vaccination he will not forget or put him in an alternative school until he is broke. 3% of the kids should not stop the learning process and rob 70% of a teachers time. Normal, well behaved kids that want to learn have rights too.
A big, HUGE thumbs up on this one!
Quote:
Until this country ante's up the money necessary to fund public schools properly, you are going to see more of the same.
So there you have it, I think if these changes were implimented then our public schools would recover to be the worlds envy in just a few years.
Good post.
I am a retired teacher - put in 37 years and enjoyed every one of them. Unfortunately the pool I came out of back in 1966 (smart women) has dried up and disappeared. If I were heading out of college today, I would most definitely make another career choice.
We have to trust our administrators, and with the Storm Trooper idea, cases would be built as necessary. I am not talking about terminations w/o sufficient review. the trouble as I outlined the sparce administrators are overwhelmed, and it is just a daily fight for surrival. there is no way appropriate evaluations can take place.
Most principals know their weak teachers, there are lots of indicators but bar is so high to get rid of em, it is not time effective to go through the process. Sad part of it that is a fact. I am an equal opportunity prick and with proper subervision, big pay increases things will get cracking and get rid of the administrators as necessary.
Sometimes, you have to get folks attention before you treat them with kindness and understanding then you can help them. Sometimes fear is needed to get that attention and respect. Good teachers resent bad teachers because they have to clean up the mess. The unions would go along with the necessary contract changes if the pay was used a a carrot, the unions could not withstand the pressure from their members. With enough documentation the unions are powerless to stop a termination. My wife terminated a kindergarten teacher of 20+ years that could not maintain order in a classroom with only 5 kids. The union rep brokered the deal and was a great help.
And lets be honest, the teaching fields in most cases don't have the same professional demands that some do, in terms of entry into the field. (ie most teachers aren't in the top 5-10% of their HS graduating class).
Neither are most lawyers, most CPAs, most nurses, many doctors, most police officers, most firemen/women - I could go on - all of which make higher starting/ending salaries than teachers.
I would be suprised (and concerned) if most doctors wern't in the top 10% of their graduating classes, as well as lawyers. I can't speak for them, but in engineering you aren't going to get accepted in most programs otherwise. If you have data to show otherwise, I apologize.
How do nursing and firefighting salaries compare with teaching, when you adjust for work weeks per year? I honestly don't know. I was under the impression that few experienced firefighters made in excess of $50K, unless in a supervisory role (comparable to a principal), at least in my area.
As to the manufacturing jobs...the level of training is certainly higher in teaching than many mfg positions, certainly the $10 per hour ones. On the other hand, it's still those $10 per hour taxpayers paying teacher's salaries. I wasn't comparing professionalism, just the sentiment involved.
I can't speak for those other professions but do you HONESTLY want to get into a pis**** match about education/work between teachers and nurses? Because honestly...it wont end well for you.
Hey, is $31K a year a good salary today in the US? The same country that pays $50M bonuses to corrupt managers, the one that awards a $278M contract to a drugged athlete? Are we in the same society?
Considering they also have some of the most amazing benefits that the private sector cant compete with AND the fact that most other industries are cutting pay/hours...YES that is a good deal.
Again, your opinion shows a lack of understanding about economics and the realities of the real world. $31,000 is nothing in today's society. That means you take about $925 home each paycheck. That's $1,850 a month, which is not all that much. Considering how important teachers are (you'd be even dumber if you didn't have all those teachers dedicated to making you smarter), don't you think there's something wrong about the fact that a teacher simply couldn't afford to buy a home if they lived in any area like San Diego, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Washington DC and any other Metro area with a high cost of living?
Teachers have college degrees, paying less than $16/hour for a college-educated person who is responsible for raising our children is simply irresponsible. The low salaries are the main reason why so many teachers move to the private sector before they're 30...in fact, I'm one of those. I saw the salaries of the highest paid teachers in the district and realized that if I taught for 30 years, I still couldn't afford to buy a single-family home. We need better teachers, and to lure them away from the private sector, we need to pay them justly. Why should a cashier at Ralph Lauren make just as much as a teacher?
Im usually in agreement with you but not here. Who CAN afford homes there? Also, I would be all for better pay for teachers...say 45k starting out BUT their benefits would then have to come more in line with the rest of us...meaning, instead of a pension style retirement benefit, they have something more like a 401k. Instead of getting all the time off that they do, they work through the year and only get three weeks paid vacation...etc,etc,etc
Considering they also have some of the most amazing benefits that the private sector cant compete with AND the fact that most other industries are cutting pay/hours...YES that is a good deal.
Apparently not good enough to attract enough good people to teach.
I agree with you that they have a lot of vacation time unparalleled in any other sector. And they get many other benefits, but for a primary provider it is little. However, teachers with years of experience in the school district, are making significantly more.
Im usually in agreement with you but not here. Who CAN afford homes there? Also, I would be all for better pay for teachers...say 45k starting out BUT their benefits would then have to come more in line with the rest of us...meaning, instead of a pension style retirement benefit, they have something more like a 401k. Instead of getting all the time off that they do, they work through the year and only get three weeks paid vacation...etc,etc,etc
All that time off...does that paper grading most nights until 9:30 count? All that time off, 4 to 5 years of expensive education for a low paying job often with student loans looming.
All that time off in the summer as you paint, roof, clerk or whatever to make ends meet.
All that time off, as you go to your second job, to cheerleader practice, after school tutoring and so forth. Weekend science camp, weekend school fairs, spending your own money for school supplies, even paying sales tax on the supplies the state should be providing.
All that time off as you go back to school to get you masters on your meager nickle, often traveling long distance to get the programs necessary.
Yep, All that time off.
BTW about nurses, nurses are making 100k now and there are no teachers in nursing schools because the money is too good in the profession so nurses are in the field and nursing schools are having a hellva of a time getting instructors.
Why is there so much jealously of people making a good living, people that pay their dues and deserve it? I want every body to be lifted uP. I am not a greedy Republican that wants a society of dirt poor and filty rich.
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Ray
