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Old 05-11-2013, 10:56 AM
 
48 posts, read 45,039 times
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Really interesting argument, criticizing liberals and libertarians for putting all their faith in this "individual" vs "collective" argument. Says we need stronger intermediate institutions/communities that operate a local level.

Thoughts?

http://www.mndaily.com/blogs/unfit-p...case-community
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:33 AM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,429 times
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Unions cramp my style.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:35 AM
 
48 posts, read 45,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonarchist View Post
Unions cramp my style.
There's nothing about unions in this. Prime example of how people can't think outside the collectivist v individualist paradigm
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:38 AM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkBlog View Post
There's nothing about unions in this. Prime example of how people can't think outside the collectivist v individualist paradigm
Collectivist force against individuals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAn1F...ature=youtu.be
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:05 PM
 
48 posts, read 45,039 times
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Read the damn article.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:13 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
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The debate is about a false dichotomy. Neither are mutually exclusive so-called collectivism or individualism are mutually exclusive. Humans are by nature a "collectivist species" our very survival has and will always depend upon it. By the same token individualism is a natural and necessary attribute of human existence. The only issue is how to balance the two so that one doesn't blot out the other. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:18 PM
 
48 posts, read 45,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The debate is about a false dichotomy. Neither are mutually exclusive so-called collectivism or individualism are mutually exclusive. Humans are by nature a "collectivist species" our very survival has and will always depend upon it. By the same token individualism is a natural and necessary attribute of human existence. The only issue is how to balance the two so that one doesn't blot out the other. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
That sounds like an interesting point. I mean, it's not relevant and it's clear as hell you didn't read the article. But still, interesting.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:20 PM
 
3,846 posts, read 2,383,429 times
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Originally Posted by WonkBlog View Post
Read the damn article.
Read it.

Didn't get anything out it.

Sorry.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,352,042 times
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The case for community | mndaily.com - The Minnesota Daily

I read the article (if I got the link right). I think what the writer is missing is that individualism vs. collectivism is really just a proxy for 'voluntary' vs. 'coerced.' Under individualism, there is nothing stopping people from joining together voluntarily to form organized communities, whether bowling leagues, temperance leagues, or anti-Walmart leagues. But it is strictly on a voluntary basis, so that if I decide that I want to bowl alone, binge drink, and shop at Walmart, I may do so.

Under collectivism, the decision to organize is made at the collective level (e.g. by voting, or by decree of the ruler), and the individual then is coerced into participation, whether he likes it or not.

If I understand the writer correctly, he basically wants an individualist approach, but with more voluntarily organized communities that could engage in problem solving. Fair enough, but he really has not escaped from the same old paradigm of individualism vs. collectivism.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:30 PM
 
128 posts, read 93,609 times
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There's no such thing as "Individualism."

It has never existed.


The Chain of Identity - YouTube
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