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Old 05-17-2013, 06:46 PM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,907,289 times
Reputation: 1578

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
The United States of America, in its entire history, has had a total of five--count'em, FIVE--good Presidents:

Cleveland
Tyler
Van Buren
Taylor
Jefferson
Andrew Jackson?
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Nope - I said that he was a Republican Progressive.

He was a great president.

The liberal Democrats have hijacked the term 'progressive" because they want to hide the fact that liberalism really = socialism - which according to Marx and Engels eventually morphs into communism.

Liberals hate that progressive Republicans were responsible for the 8 hr work day, women's suffrage, and civil rights.

They want people to forget that Democrats opposed all of those positive movements.
For a truly honest review of the HORRIBLE Teddy Roosevelt presidency (along with Wilson), I highly suggest Judge Andrew Napolitano's (Fox news legal analyst) book: Theodore and Woodrow: How Two American Presidents Destroyed Constitutional Freedom.

Amazon.com: Theodore and Woodrow: How Two American Presidents Destroyed Constitutional Freedom eBook: Andrew P. Napolitano: Kindle Store
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
I will always maintain until a better one comes along, that Lincoln was the best president ever.
To the contrary--Lincoln was the WORST President in American history.

-Responsible for the slaughter of 800,000 Americans.
-Suspended habeas corpus.
-Imprisoned journalists.
-Imprisoned political opponents.
-Centralized and consolidated power in the federal government.
-Destroyed the notion of state sovereignty.
-Publicly called for the forced repatriation of blacks back to Africa.

Lincoln was a MONSTER, an absolutely HORRIBLE human being, and without a doubt an absolute disgrace.
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:53 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,123 posts, read 16,137,835 times
Reputation: 28332
Teddy Roosevelt, he was a man's man and a true visionary. He gave us our national parks and brought us into world politics. He set the stage for women's suffrage with Conservation of Womanhood and Childhood and invited Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House, the first time a black person dined with an American president.

"Walk softy and carry a big stick" ~ Teddy Roosevelt
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Andrew Jackson?
-Abolishing the Central Bank: very, very good
-Committing genocide on the Native Americans with the Trail of Tears: very, very bad.
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:57 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,123 posts, read 16,137,835 times
Reputation: 28332
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
To the contrary--Lincoln was the WORST President in American history.

-Responsible for the slaughter of 800,000 Americans.
-Suspended habeas corpus.
-Imprisoned journalists.
-Imprisoned political opponents.
-Centralized and consolidated power in the federal government.
-Destroyed the notion of state sovereignty.
-Publicly called for the forced repatriation of blacks back to Africa.

Lincoln was a MONSTER, an absolutely HORRIBLE human being, and without a doubt an absolute disgrace.
We were in the midst of a civil war. What did you want, for our nation to be fractured? For human beings to remain as the property of others?
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Teddy Roosevelt, he was a man's man and a true visionary. He gave us our national parks and brought us into world politics. He set the stage for women's suffrage with Conservation of Womanhood and Childhood and invited Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House, the first time a black person dined with an American president.

"Walk softy and carry a big stick" ~ Teddy Roosevelt
He was also a rabid interventionist who basically got the ball rolling on the creation of the American Empire. In essence the first neocon.

-Sent troops into Cuba in 1906, with the proclamation "I should not dream of asking the permission of Congress…"

-When Panama revolted against ruling Colombia, sent warships without Congressional consent to support the Panamanians, quickly recognized the hastily created Republic of Panama, and a treaty was negotiated giving the U.S. the right to build the Panama Canal, with the proclamation "I took the Canal Zone and let Congress debate; and while the debate goes on the Canal does also.”

-In 1907, sent the “Great White Fleet” of 16 U.S. warships on the first world naval tour in history to demonstrate military strength, especially meant to intimidate Japan, which was expanding into a world power. While the voyage was initially viewed as a great international success for both Roosevelt and the U.S., it encouraged Japan to accelerate naval and arms production to match America, leading to WWII.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
We were in the midst of a civil war. What did you want, for our nation to be fractured? For human beings to remain as the property of others?
If you think the War to Prevent Southern Independence was fought to free the slaves, I feel sorry for you.

"I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." -- Lincoln

"There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races. A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas..." -- Lincoln

"Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man." -- Lincoln

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything." -- Lincoln

And if you think it's acceptable suspending habeas corpus and jailing political opponents/journalists at ANY time, I feel even sorrier for you...
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,114,561 times
Reputation: 1747
More Lincoln:

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State."

"The War is waged by the government of the United States not in the spirit of conquest or subjugation, nor for the purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or institutions of the states, but to defend and protect the Union."

And the most damning quote of all:

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also so that."
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,406,722 times
Reputation: 6288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
We were in the midst of a civil war. What did you want, for our nation to be fractured? For human beings to remain as the property of others?
He's spouting a bunch of libertarian isolationist nonsense. The notion that Lincoln slaughtered 800k Americans is absurd. Trying to use a 21st century mindset when assessing 1860's America is also absurd.
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