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Old 05-31-2013, 09:12 AM
 
17,298 posts, read 25,611,061 times
Reputation: 8567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
It isn't any business of the government what you study, which is why student loans need to be 100% privatized. The private sector would naturally move to a system such as I described.
You're confusing access to higher education with dictating by affordability what people should be studying. The government has an interest in the former, not the latter.

Perhaps someone really wants to be an English major, and won't mind making 30k/year. They shouldn't be penalized with higher rates, and they should be able to pay


The fact that the private system would "naturally move to" that paradigm is PRECISELY why private banks - again, which add ZERO VALUE to education financing - need to go away, or just deal with their existing private loan paradigm. They have no business in the fed subsidized system (which, by the way, is a program that helps sustain the middle class).



Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
If you get a degree with low earning potential and do well, then you will be able to stomach a higher interest rate. Direct lending at a low fixed rate does nothing but incentivize more mediocre people to get advanced degrees that they don't actually need. We don't need to encourage payback, we need to encourage education in fields that can help our country grow.
Sorry, but you are not the arbiter of what people need or do not need. Low interest fixed rates help EVERYONE. People who don't have the aptitude for math and engineering and science aren't going to go do those fields anymore than they are NOW that there is expensive education financing!

Higher paychecks in in-demand fields drive the market in that area. Not student loan funding. There will always be a need for well educated baristas. There are more ways to encourage students to attempt those fields than to make other things more expensive!
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:14 AM
 
17,298 posts, read 25,611,061 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I have a political science undergrad and I've done just fine with it. Lots of people with liberal arts degrees use those degrees to successfully go into fields that require a broad base of information, research and problem solving skills. I own a marketing firm, and most of my employees also have a liberal arts education. No degree is useless--it's what you do with it. I've known complete idiots with engineering degrees who can't keep a job. It depends on the person and how they use it.
Yep.

I have a liberal arts degree and went on to graduate school, as did most others I graduated with. Why would or should I be saddled with a higher interest rate for getting that degree, when it actually led to another degree that pays?


Liberal arts degrees are often valued at the graduate level because they don't produce one trick pony robots.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:26 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,965,679 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Statistically speaking from national averages you are not correct. There are obviously exceptions to every rule, but the facts from national statistics say that you would be better off today if you had majored in something other than political science. Stop using personal experiences and start looking at broader statistics. A sample of one person (you) is not a valid basis for forming an opinion.

How has your political science education helped you in owning and running a marketing firm?
Are you serious? For starters, research, analysis and writing skills, which are 9/10ths of the skills I use daily. A political science degree teaches you to think logically, debate information, synthesize complicated concepts and communicate. The skills involved in marketing, combined with some creativity, are virtually the same.

On the rest--good lord. People have been getting liberal arts degrees since higher education began, and they've done just fine with them, as long as they can combine them with experience in a field that they're interested in. That's MOST of building a career--getting your foot in the door and building experience from position to position. Not everyone is going to enjoy technical fields, and those tech businesses still need people to do all aspects of running a business, marketing, writing, editing, lobbying, etc.

Why don't you quote those national statistics, because most of what you're saying seems to be based on personal opinion. Some degrees make it a little more difficult to find strong employment immediately after graduation, depending on the experience you can combine it with, but when you look at the long term benefit of having ANY kind of college degree, the benefits are obvious.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:27 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,376,799 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
You're confusing access to higher education with dictating by affordability what people should be studying. The government has an interest in the former, not the latter.
Which is why I said my plan requires student loans to be privatized. The government should not be in the loan business.

Quote:
Perhaps someone really wants to be an English major, and won't mind making 30k/year. They shouldn't be penalized with higher rates, and they should be able to pay
Given that english majors statistically have lower rates of payback on loans than STEM majors, they absolutely should be penalized with higher interest rates.

Quote:
The fact that the private system would "naturally move to" that paradigm is PRECISELY why private banks - again, which add ZERO VALUE to education financing - need to go away, or just deal with their existing private loan paradigm. They have no business in the fed subsidized system (which, by the way, is a program that helps sustain the middle class).
You have this completely backwards. The federal loan program does nothing but encourage high priced colleges that add no real educational or functional value to a person. The fact that you need a college education to be a secretary today is 100% the fault of the federal loan program. Do you seriously want to encourage a system that pushes for degrees over the correct education for a job?

Quote:
Sorry, but you are not the arbiter of what people need or do not need. Low interest fixed rates help EVERYONE. People who don't have the aptitude for math and engineering and science aren't going to go do those fields anymore than they are NOW that there is expensive education financing!
...when did I claim to be the 'arbiter of what people need'? Talk about a dumb comment. Low interest rates do nothing but push more people into programs that do not help them on the job. People who don't have an aptitude for math or engineering need to stop hiding behind comments like that and study harder to make up for a 'lack of aptitude'. Hard work and commitment matters more than any aptitude ever would.

Quote:
Higher paychecks in in-demand fields drive the market in that area. Not student loan funding. There will always be a need for well educated baristas. There are more ways to encourage students to attempt those fields than to make other things more expensive!
Tell me one of those ways then, given the fact that the United States is so far behind the rest of the world in STEM fields. We are pitiful as a nation in terms of putting out qualified people for fields that are driving countries forward. My grad program had 40% of the class as international students because there simply are not enough Americans qualified to study the material. That problem will do nothing but increase with your idea of 'low flat rates' for everyone.

But hey, if you want to push more people into wasting time and money on college so that they can sling drinks at starbucks, go with your idea. Personally? I think that person would be much better off not wasting four years and tens of thousands of dollars on a degree that they don't need for their job.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: None of your business
5,467 posts, read 3,757,639 times
Reputation: 1170
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Yep.

I have a liberal arts degree and went on to graduate school, as did most others I graduated with. Why would or should I be saddled with a higher interest rate for getting that degree, when it actually led to another degree that pays?


Liberal arts degrees are often valued at the graduate level because they don't produce one trick pony robots.
The same as why should anyone who succeeds be strapped with higher taxes. In a sense, it's the same thing.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:38 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,376,799 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Are you serious? For starters, research, analysis and writing skills, which are 9/10ths of the skills I use daily. A political science degree teaches you to think logically, debate information, synthesize complicated concepts and communicate. The skills involved in marketing, combined with some creativity, are virtually the same.
And that teaches you more than the type of research, analysis and writing that you would get from a major that teaches you how to research market trends, analyze customer preferences and write business proposals? Business degrees teach you how to run regression analyses to come up with the statistically best markets to enter. You are saying that your political science degree prepared you to run a business better than that?

Quote:
On the rest--good lord. People have been getting liberal arts degrees since higher education began, and they've done just fine with them, as long as they can combine them with experience in a field that they're interested in. That's MOST of building a career--getting your foot in the door and building experience from position to position. Not everyone is going to enjoy technical fields, and those tech businesses still need people to do all aspects of running a business, marketing, lobbying, etc.

Why don't you quote those national statistics, because most of what you're saying seems to be based on personal opinion. Some degrees make it a little more difficult to find strong employment immediately after graduation, depending on the experience you can combine it with, but when you look at the long term benefit of having ANY kind of college degree, the benefits are obvious.
Here are a few:

Median Earnings by Major and Subject Area - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Center on Education and the Workforce -

http://www.payscale.com/college-sala...t-pay-you-back

According to national averages, you will make more money being a plumber than majoring in any of the following:

Horticulture
Journalism
Visual Communication
Paralegal/Law
Public Relations (PR)
Zoology
Art History
Hospitality & Tourism
Fashion Design
Sociology
Anthropology
Radio & Television
Spanish
Sports Medicine
Photography
Graphic Design
Interior Design
Sports Management
Classics
Criminal Justice
Psychology
Public Health (PH)
Recreation & Leisure Studies
Religious Studies
Music
Athletic Training
Art
Kinesiology
Physical Education
Animal Science
Theater
Social Work (SW)
Human Development
Biblical Studies
Theology
Fine Arts
Broadcasting
Exercise Science
Culinary Arts
Child and Family Studies
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:39 AM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,965,679 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Yep.

I have a liberal arts degree and went on to graduate school, as did most others I graduated with. Why would or should I be saddled with a higher interest rate for getting that degree, when it actually led to another degree that pays?


Liberal arts degrees are often valued at the graduate level because they don't produce one trick pony robots.
Exactly. They teach you to think and problem solve, which are the keys to success in most fields. Information in tech fields changes constantly and becomes outdated quickly, but the skills you gain from a liberal degree are never outdated, and they can be applied to virtually every field. We need techies in this country, but with tech jobs come a host of other jobs to support the industry.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:41 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,376,799 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Exactly. They teach you to think and problem solve, which are the keys to success in most fields. Information in tech fields changes constantly and becomes outdated quickly, but the skills you gain from a liberal degree are never outdated, and they can be applied to virtually every field. We need techies in this country, but with tech jobs come a host of other jobs to support the industry.
Tech degree do nothing but teach you how to think and problem solve. They also give you a skill relevant to the workforce.

You get everything that you claim is useful about a liberal arts degree with a tech degree, you simply get concrete skills that add value to an employer as well.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 15,244,794 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRayP View Post
lol, bob, you are right on cue. Obama is also going to speak at a college and spewing these lies and promote hatred toward republicans based on these lies.
What lies?
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:51 AM
 
51,499 posts, read 41,496,683 times
Reputation: 32195
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
You're confusing access to higher education with dictating by affordability what people should be studying. The government has an interest in the former, not the latter.

Perhaps someone really wants to be an English major, and won't mind making 30k/year. They shouldn't be penalized with higher rates, and they should be able to pay


The fact that the private system would "naturally move to" that paradigm is PRECISELY why private banks - again, which add ZERO VALUE to education financing - need to go away, or just deal with their existing private loan paradigm. They have no business in the fed subsidized system (which, by the way, is a program that helps sustain the middle class).
I'm confused here.

Looking at paying for college strategies for a friends kid right now.

5500 pell grant, 5500 fed loan = 11k a year.
That leaves them around 10k short.

Without the private loan system where are they going to come up with the other 10k?

Not trying to be combative, I'm honestly trying to learn something here.
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