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I don't fit into any choices, I would say I am between the first 2. I absolutely believe in intelligent life outside of this planet, but I'm not sure if they have visited. I find it feasible that they have visited, as IMO there is just so much unknown out there that there may very well be life intelligent enough to have such travel possibilities. However, I haven't seen enough convincing evidence for me to state for a fact that we have been visited.
But here's the gorilla in the room.... The earth is unique so far as we know so far, as concerns not just life on a planet but an incredibly abundant and diverse life filled planet.
Absolutely. Though I do agree with the others in that I think it's more likelythere's life on other planets out there, your argument isn't a bad one. We still have knowledge of enough planets to ask ourselves, "Why is Earth the only planet in the radius of our knowledge that contains life of any kind?" And with so much life, it's easy to consider Earth unique.
I do think that theists should ask themselves one question, however. Those that would argue "God put the stars/other planets in the sky to give us light/something to admire"... What are all the stars/planets we can't even see for?
I'm sure that other planets in other solar systems in other galaxies are just as unique in their own special way.
The point of posting that video was to illustrate that there really isn't such a thing as "empty space". There are millions of galaxies in patches we used to think was just empty.
No, you are misunderstanding, the universe is mostly empty space because the distances between celestial bodies are enormous.
Though Terryj reprimanded me for imagining or describing the earth as a grain of sand, and not just a grain of sand but a tiny sized grain of sand, I do recall the instructor of my intro astronomy course using common round objects and distances on our campus grounds to illustrate what planet earth would be in our particular lecture hall (as an object) relative to other objects (planets in the Milky Way) placed at varying distance in a straight line from that position in the lecture hall to point along the campus. The gaps are enormous. The distances from one galaxy to the next can be enormous.
There are other celestial bodies and debris in the universe besides planets. But the universe is primarily empty space. At least that's what I was taught. I've no more actually been off planet earth traveling around the universe than I have been inside an atom looking around. And given my understanding of physics/chemistry is impoverished I have to take some of this on faith.
By the way, the earth sun is gigantic compared to the earth. A gigantic star. There are other planets way bigger than earth too. But while I don't know the true scale in differences off the back of my hand, let me wing it and say the earth's sun is the size of a grapefruit and the earth the size of a marble next to it.
Terryj says it's wrong to imagine the earth in the scale of size as a grain of sand relative to the size of the universe. But a lot of these galaxies are presented and depicted, with respects to their shape, as flat objects. So, I'm waiting to hear his interpretation of proper scale given these flat objects (in depiction) are small geometric shapes, made up of tiny objects, relative to an enormous universe, mostly empty space, spanning in the directions up and down, right and left, and all points in between.
Of course, the universe might be depicted as flat, but then that's not telling me much. Plus, no one has stepped outside the universe (impossible) to observe the universe from the outside, so, how would they know its flat?
Why do you believe in angels but not aliens? Those two statements seem to contradict each other.
Because one I accept on faith and I'm not shy to admit that's my mode of belief in angels. The other I need to believe in not through the mode of faith but through reason, preferably through observational science rather than statistical science, so, I need more evidence.
Absolutely. Though I do agree with the others in that I think it's more likelythere's life on other planets out there, your argument isn't a bad one. We still have knowledge of enough planets to ask ourselves, "Why is Earth the only planet in the radius of our knowledge that contains life of any kind?" And with so much life, it's easy to consider Earth unique.
I do think that theists should ask themselves one question, however. Those that would argue "God put the stars/other planets in the sky to give us light/something to admire"... What are all the stars/planets we can't even see for?
Well... a theist, a priest, is credited with coming up with the Big Bang theory. And we know Jesuits have been involved in astronomy so long for so many centuries (the Vatican operates two observatories, one in Italy, and one in the United States actually) there are celestial bodies named after Jesuits.
I'm not sure the physical evolution of the universe is the great problem for theists. Although, biological evolution poses more problems.
But then... biological evolution seems to me to posses problems for non-theists (or theists too) that believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. At minimum--and I'm no mathematician or evolutionary biologist--it seems to me the odds of such complex life developing are far less likely than we think.
Human life could only emerge through a milieu of other complex life forms developing all in symbiotic relations. Without diverse terrestrial plant life, without ice insulating large bodies of water during cold winters, much of animals life on earth would never have come into existence. Humanity could not exist.
But how human life eventually resulted from a single cell organism is mysterious. Assuming that's where all life on earth does originate from. The bodies of dogs, octopuses, humans... are amazing, with all their cells not just connecting together but differentiating to form specialized functions and organs.
Supine, I will agree that compared to the universe the earth is but a mote of dust, however, compared to the universe everything is but a mote of dust. Are there objects bigger than Earth, sure there is, but there are also objects much smaller than Earth.
If we have been visited by ET in the past I haven't really seen any concrete evidence of it, there is a lot of conjecture but no real proof.
From what we do know, the Earth sits in a remote spot on one of the spirals of our galaxy, I don't think we are that important in the grand scheme of things to justify ET visitations. To me it would as if I'm going to leave Mars to visit Wagontire, Oregon (the smallest town in Oregon, population 1).
There are those people who think that us humans are the best thing that have ever existed on this planet, however, we are just one species of a multitude of species that call this world home, we are not that important nor do I think we are that interesting for ET to travel 100's of millions of miles just to say hi, can I help you out, we're just passing by though we'd drop by for a quick bite.
Supine, I will agree that compared to the universe the earth is but a mote of dust, however, compared to the universe everything is but a mote of dust. Are there objects bigger than Earth, sure there is, but there are also objects much smaller than Earth.
Okay, but that was kind of my point.
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If we have been visited by ET in the past I haven't really seen any concrete evidence of it, there is a lot of conjecture but no real proof.
They could have done better than build primitive pyramids with all that amazing technology it took to travel to the earth.
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From what we do know, the Earth sits in a remote spot on one of the spirals of our galaxy, I don't think we are that important in the grand scheme of things to justify ET visitations. To me it would as if I'm going to leave Mars to visit Wagontire, Oregon (the smallest town in Oregon, population 1).
There are those people who think that us humans are the best thing that have ever existed on this planet, however, we are just one species of a multitude of species that call this world home, we are not that important nor do I think we are that interesting for ET to travel 100's of millions of miles just to say hi, can I help you out, we're just passing by though we'd drop by for a quick bite.
Okay, so, we are getting more to the heart of the issue. This is less a issue of science for you than a one of philosophy. You philosophically object to an anthropocentric and earth-centric view most humans have. And this is motivated by your atheism?
So, you like the idea of superior beings somewhere far away in the universe that make humans look like chimps and demotes the earth to nothing special in terms of life, yes?
Well... wild wishes aside, so far as we know, the earth is special in terms of life. Until we find out otherwise that will remain the case. Atheists will have to remain irked if not everyone believes their little creative writing narratives about gods (aliens) that can't be bothered to drop in on planet earth to a boring planet with boring species.
If intelligent life does exist in the galaxy of Andromeda they are not going to come to earth. Not because the earth and humans and birds are boring but because we live too damn far away.
And Andromeda is pretty close to the Milky Way relative to almost every other galaxy--or maybe every galaxy?--in the universe. I thought it was supposed to be the closest but I browsed quickly over something contradicting that. Either way it's relatively close.
So, just on a one way trip to the United States it would take aliens from Andromeda 2.5 million years to reach earth traveling at the speed of light (how do you even pilot a craft traveling that fast without hitting some objects?).
As a reference point, Jesus lived about 2,000 years ago, if they departed 2,000 years ago they still have 2,498,000 years left till they reach earth. And they still got to go back! Unless they can't or won't.
I'd be stupid to not think some form of life exists somewhere else in the universe.
Has it visited us?
I can't say that for sure.
06-24-2013, 05:51 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
I am not sure why people can not infer that extraterrestrial life is most probable given what we know about the Universe and as a result believe so, other than religous bias - yet based upon mere ignorance and emotional desire they will believe with near certainty that their version of God exists and that we are alone in the Universe.
As far as scale is concerned this mere approximation might help:
If the Earth was 1/16th of an inch (about the size of a flea) the Sun would be 6.75 inches in diameter.
The Earth would be about 60ft away from the Sun.
Neptune would be about 1800ft (over a 1/4 mile) away from the Sun.
The nearest Star (Proxima Centauri) would be about 3030 miles (Seattle WA to Cuba) away from the Sun.
The Milky Way Galaxy would have a diameter of about 78.6 million miles (the distance from the Sun to about 1/2 the distance between Venus and Earth).
There is nothing special about our Sun or our Galaxy - surely there is plenty of opportunities for another Solar System, in some Galaxy, to be like ours with a planet capable of life. If God exists and he created all these galaxies, stars, and planets with no life other than Earth - why? What a waste of space and creative energy. Surely if we are his focus there is no need to have such a Universe with such vast and unecessary stuff - it is mind boggeling that this tiny pale blue dot (as Sagan said), which occupies virtually nothing in caparison to everything else, should occupy so little of God's creation.
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