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Old 07-01-2013, 02:00 PM
 
74,762 posts, read 34,930,201 times
Reputation: 10588

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
Good! You're admitting you didn't know Obama's mother was MARRIED when she gave birth to Obama, according to HI court documents.

The divorce documents filed by Obama's mother's attorney confirm the fact that Obama's parents were living as husband and wife in Honolulu when Obama was born.

Obama was NOT born to a single mom.

Obama = LIAR, FRAUD

Or...

Hawaiian officials = LIARS

Could very possibly be both...
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 14,583,093 times
Reputation: 3952
Current status of all significant Birther theories.

1. Obama was born in Kenya.

Obama has proven by the release of two birth certificates that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. The State of Hawaii or its officials have further verified that fact at least seven subsequent times.

2. The Birth Certificates are Forgeries.

It has been proven that 100% of the "anomalies" birthers claim exist on the Whitehouse released PDF are the ordinary results of an ordinary scanning workflow of an ordinary paper document starting with a Xerox 7655 Workcenter.

3. Natural born citizenship requires two American citizen parents at birth.

23 courts have considered that argument. All have declared it wrong, and declared Barack Obama a natural born US citizen. SCOTUS has declined to review those rulings at least 25 times.

4. Dual citizens cannot be natural born citizens.

23 courts have considered that argument. All have declared it wrong, and declared Barack Obama a natural born US citizen. SCOTUS has declined to review those rulings at least 25 times.

5. Obama somehow lost his citizenship in Indonesia.

Under both US and Indonesian law, there is nothing that Obama, his mother, his step father or the government of Indonesia can have done that would have surrendered his status as a natural born citizen.

The fat lady has sung.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:29 PM
 
74,762 posts, read 34,930,201 times
Reputation: 10588
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
1. Obama was born in Kenya.

Obama has proven by the release of two birth certificates that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. The State of Hawaii or its officials have further verified that fact at least seven subsequent times.
Um... many of you are claiming State of Hawaii documents are wrong, and that Obama actually was born to a single mom. Can't have it both ways.
Quote:
2. The Birth Certificates are Forgeries.
Still unresolved.

Quote:
3. Natural born citizenship requires two American citizen parents at birth.
Affirmed by SCOTUS, more than once.

Quote:
4. Dual citizens cannot be natural born citizens.
Misleading, as the State Dept has already determined that those born in the U.S. to foreign citizen/subject fathers were NOT even U.S. citizens at all.

Quote:
5. Obama somehow lost his citizenship in Indonesia.
Also misleading as according to the State Dept determinations already posted, he may not ever have had U.S. citizenship at all.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:33 PM
 
24,218 posts, read 11,657,157 times
Reputation: 5842
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Good! You're admitting you didn't know Obama's mother was MARRIED when she gave birth to Obama,.....
married: i knew.

legitimate: unclear

living together: unknown


and frankly i don't care. if you want to discuss this more IC start a thread for it. it's off-topic here
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:40 PM
 
74,762 posts, read 34,930,201 times
Reputation: 10588
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
married: i knew.

legitimate: unclear
Only if Obama is also lying about Obama Sr being his father, and Obama being his real name.

Quote:
living together: unknown
Not unknown. Described as "living as husband and wife" by Obama's mother's own divorce attorney.

Quote:
and frankly i don't care.
Exactly the problem. You and other duped Obots:

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Old 07-01-2013, 02:43 PM
 
42,492 posts, read 26,528,436 times
Reputation: 14117
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They don't say anything about "their rulings." They're talking about statutes.

The actual statement is thus:

"In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

The State Department is talking about the State Department. They aren't in a position to talk about other government entities. So it would be the State Department's rulings made according to various statutes. In fact that's what you link to, State Department rulings.

And I'm not going to let you skirt the clear problem in your post.

Constitutional purposes. There is only one Constitutional purpose dealing with natural-born citizen. ONLY ONE. Otherwise, there are no differences, ZERO, between born citizens and naturalized citizens. ONLY ONE Constitutional purpose. If the statutes are irrelevant ("does not necessarily imply"---can't get more irrelevant than that), then anything the State Department rules on regarding citizenship have nothing to do with determining a Constitutional definition of natural-born citizen.

You're the one who cites this statement from the State Department.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 14,583,093 times
Reputation: 3952
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Um... many of you are claiming State of Hawaii documents are wrong, and that Obama actually was born to a single mom. Can't have it both ways.
1) Don't be stupid. No anti-birther has ever claimed any State of Hawaii documents are wrong. If you are going to set up straw men, don't set up such idiotic ones.

2) I wouldn't matter what we believed anyway. Under the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution, what Hawaii says ends the discussion. They are the only authority on the planet that can declare a person Hawaiian born. They have declared Obama Hawaiian born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Still unresolved.
Nope. Completely proved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Affirmed by SCOTUS, more than once.
Never affirmed as a necessity, only as a sufficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Misleading, as the State Dept has already determined that those born in the U.S. to foreign citizen/subject fathers were NOT even U.S. citizens at all.
All such ancient State Department errors were ended by the decision is US v. Wong Kim Ark... more than a century ago. State has never repeated those errors since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Also misleading as according to the State Dept determinations already posted, he may not ever have had U.S. citizenship at all.
Actually, the State Department is formally on record in testimony offered in court under oath that Obama is a natural born US citizen, that he was never an Indonesian citizen, and that he could never have lost his citizenship in that manner.

The fat lady has sung.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
 
42,492 posts, read 26,528,436 times
Reputation: 14117
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Only if Obama is also lying about Obama Sr being his father, and Obama being his real name.

Not unknown. Described as "living as husband and wife" by Obama's mother's own divorce attorney.

Exactly the problem. You and other duped Obots:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama's mother's own divorce attorney doesn't specify anywhere in the document when or for how long Obama's parents were living together as husband and wife. They might have lived together as husband and wife in February of 1961, and Obama's mother may have moved in with her parents before Obama's birth, or coming home from the hospital after Obama's birth. In which case, Obama's mother would have been a single mother in every sense of the phrase except the legal one. I know, that for you the pedantic route is the one you prefer, but mothers who are separated from their husbands, legally or simply as a matter of fact, are functioning as single parents, providing for all their children's needs. While many of those functioning as single parents don't see that as their long-term future, the practical problems of day-to-day parenting are still being addressed by one parent.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:06 PM
 
74,762 posts, read 34,930,201 times
Reputation: 10588
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
it would be the State Department's rulings made according to various statutes.
Exactly.

I've already posted cases in which the State Dept has determined that those born in the U.S. to foreign citizen/subject fathers were NOT even U.S. citizens at all...

Secretary of State Frederick Frelinghuysen determined Ludwig Hausding, though born in the U.S., was not born a U.S. citizen because he was subject to a foreign power at birth having been born to a Saxon subject alien father.

Similarly, Secretary of State Thomas Bayard determined Richard Greisser, though born in Ohio, was not born a U.S. citizen because Greisser's father, too, was an alien, a German subject at the time of Greisser's birth. Bayard specifically stated that Greisser was at birth 'subject to a foreign power,' therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Digest of the International Law of the United States

Obama was born to a foreign citizen/subject father.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:07 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,998,893 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Give it up IC. You have drilled so deeply beyond your own incompetence on this one that you are now just embarrassing yourself.
Waste time on OPs. The only reason to waste time on these two is to distract them from doing anything else or to sharpen your skills. But you can only get so sharp against a dull instrument.

They have nothing original to say while at least Jim has old stuff with new words.
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