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Old 06-11-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,729 posts, read 2,626,914 times
Reputation: 2031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyGuy View Post
I've read about that, but such freeze would be temporary on the geological time scale.
One other possible danger.

There is a massive amount of frozen methane on the oceans sea floor. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon is. If this frozen methane melts and its a working greenhouse gas, it could be dangerous.

 
Old 06-11-2013, 08:23 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 6,924,973 times
Reputation: 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Independence? How do you achieve such with government?

If the market could establish such practically, it would be happening.

Note that Solar, wind, etc.. have been available for near a 100 years. It has been available to the public and anyone of interest could establish themselves with "independence" as you say all this time.

Why haven't they?

Here is a hint... Because the technology is not practical to any large extent. Sure... it works to a level for some minor aspects, it can reduce dependence and in some cases, those who are truly willing to sacrifice (and that is what it takes if you want to live that way), you can be truly independent. This can't happen on the level of our infrastructure. The technology hasn't even improved since we started this garbage.

Do you honestly think that car companies all of a sudden in a couple of years pulled out these hybrids and electric cars because they "had to"? The reason they were able to bring them to market it because they have... ON THEIR OWN, been trying to find a way to make them viable.

Now they don't though, they have the government paying 40k for every car they make so those overpriced and impractical vehicles can be brought to market. They aren't "innovations", they have been around for years, but they were IMPRACTICAL, but hey... when government is flipping the bill, its ok right?

Seriously, have we all become stupid lemmings?
Fail.

Solar power generation hits record levels | FOX5 San Diego
 
Old 06-11-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
5,729 posts, read 2,626,914 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyGuy View Post
I've read about that, but such freeze would be temporary on the geological time scale.
The following sources are about the frozen methane.

Arctic methane release - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scientists Gain New Insights Into 'Frozen' Methane Beneath Ocean Floor

Methane gas likely spewing into the oceans through vents in sea floor - MIT News Office


Perhaps the following source is not trustworthy ??
Armageddon Online - If underwater frozen methane melted, its explosion would scorch the Earth
 
Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,467,000 times
Reputation: 4016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Um, go to page 8 on this link and see if you can find the "other" part on the graph. It's in red...

http://www.iea.org/publications/free...ation/kwes.pdf

OP:

Anyways, what are you going to do about it? Just asking that question pretty much shuts every single blowhard up instantly.
Quote:
STOCKHOLM (AP) — The world's energy-related carbon dioxide emissions rose 1.4 percent in 2012 to a record high of 31.6 billion tons, even though the U.S. posted its lowest emissions since the mid-1990s, the International Energy Agency said Monday.

In its annual World Energy Outlook report, the Paris-based IEA said top carbon polluter China had the largest emissions growth last year, up 300 million tons, or 3.8 percent, from 2011. Still, the increase was among the lowest seen in a decade as China continues to invest in renewable energy and energy efficiency.

U.S. emissions dropped 200 million tons, or 3.8 percent, in part due to a switch in power generation from coal to gas, while Europe's emissions declined by 50 million tons, or 1.4 percent, the IEA said.
IEA: Energy CO2 emissions hit record high in 2012

You going to force China to stop industrializing? What about the rest of the third world? You know, the other 3.3 billion people on the planet? You're going to tell them they can't increase their standard of living so that you can feel all smug in all of your self-righteousness so that you can sleep good in your sleep numbers bed set on number "hypocrite?"
 
Old 06-11-2013, 08:47 PM
 
135 posts, read 111,050 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad3 View Post
One other possible danger.

There is a massive amount of frozen methane on the oceans sea floor. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon is. If this frozen methane melts and its a working greenhouse gas, it could be dangerous.
I've read some material about a massive amount being released before. Supposedly caused an extinction of marine life

Clathrate gun hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 06-11-2013, 08:53 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 6,924,973 times
Reputation: 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Um, go to page 8 on this link and see if you can find the "other" part on the graph. It's in red...

http://www.iea.org/publications/free...ation/kwes.pdf

OP:

Anyways, what are you going to do about it? Just asking that question pretty much shuts every single blowhard up instantly.
IEA: Energy CO2 emissions hit record high in 2012

You going to force China to stop industrializing? What about the rest of the third world? You know, the other 3.3 billion people on the planet? You're going to tell them they can't increase their standard of living so that you can feel all smug in all of your self-righteousness so that you can sleep good in your sleep numbers bed set on number "hypocrite?"
Next time you quote me with an attempt to debate, try to make sense.
 
Old 06-11-2013, 09:13 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,467,000 times
Reputation: 4016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Next time you quote me with an attempt to debate, try to make sense.
You didn't like what you found did you?

Okay, I'll play your silly little game. The part in red called "other" is "*Other includes geothermal, solar, wind, heat, etc."

It moved from an astounding .1% of "World total primary energy supply" in 1973 to an extraordinary .9% in 2010. The part on the graph in red is not even discernible.

Have a good rest of your day...
 
Old 06-11-2013, 09:28 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 6,924,973 times
Reputation: 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
You didn't like what you found did you?

Okay, I'll play your silly little game. The part in red called "other" is "*Other includes geothermal, solar, wind, heat, etc."

It moved from an astounding .1% of "World total primary energy supply" in 1973 to an extraordinary .9% in 2010. The part on the graph in red is not even discernible.

Have a good rest of your day...
Okay, let's play your stupid little game of avoiding clear evidence from the link I posted and talk about something you said I said, but in reality I never did say. You accuse me of not wanting the rest of the world to industrialize, which I never did say, but again we are playing your stupid little game. My simple question for you is how will the rest of the undeveloped or underdeveloped world become industrialized and stay industrialized into the future if everyone is using finite resources for energy?
 
Old 06-11-2013, 09:32 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 33,467,000 times
Reputation: 4016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Okay, let's play your stupid little game of avoiding clear evidence from the link I posted and talk about something you said I said, but in reality I never did say. You accuse me of not wanting the rest of the world to industrialize, which I never did say, but again we are playing your stupid little game. My simple question for you is how will the rest of the undeveloped or underdeveloped world become industrialized and stay industrialized into the future if everyone is using finite resources for energy?
Why don't you look back over that post again. Try looking for "OP:".
 
Old 06-11-2013, 09:39 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 6,924,973 times
Reputation: 4149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Why don't you look back over that post again. Try looking for "OP:".
You didn't answer my simple question. How will the developed, underdeveloped, and undeveloped countries power their economies in the future with finite resources?
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