Snowden (the leaker) tells the Chinese about US surveillance on China (government, program)
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I think the problem here is that certain posters already declared this guy a hero, and now that he is turning out to be a true traitor, they are too ashamed to admit they were wrong. This is not a right vs left issue. Anyone can disagree with the Verizon case, but no one should defend a guy who is handing out classified information to the Chinese.
**** you not everyone's is pro-war on everything and not everyone sees the entire world as enemies. Our government is the sole reason why this country has so many enemies to begin with. Terrorism won't be solved by putting the entire country under surveillance. Are you all that naive to give up your privacy, reputation of this country and so much of our wealth to fight "terrorism"? People like you are the traitors who support this oppressive government no matter what.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I hate to say it, but I told you so. I said he went to China to because he is going to give, or sell them classified CIA information, and I was right.
He could have done all that and much much worse but he hasn't done anything so far. He hasn't revealed anything important. Hong Kong is not China. In his mind, and rightly so, it was the only place in the world where he could book a flight without setting any alarms and to avoid extradition. If he had gone to Brazil, you would have complained too.
It is being reported that Snowden is meeting with Chinese officials and discussing classified activities he performed while employed in the United States. If this has occurred, then it is treason by any definition!
I don't get into details here but there's huge talk on the techie forums on this.
The NSA has broken the SSL keys or were given the keys by the big players (secure socket layer) to do this. They had to if they are intercepting data. And again, as the big players say..there is no DIRECT access.
Think about that....
This is encrypted data we're talking about that the NSA is taking.
They threatened the big boys a ways back but they have been fighting back against it. Now they are using a different section, 502 I think it was, of the Patriot Act to get what they want. I read an article a week or so ago about it. May have been something other than the Patriot Act but when the "players" tried to fight back they just went around it. So yeah they know everything we buy, who we call, anything they want. It used to be encrypted but not anymore. This is what these folks are condoning and don't even know it and now think that some guy saying we hack China is the bad guy when our own government is doing this to us. Unbelievable is all I can say.
I don't know if it is a smear campaign as much as it is a "bigger picture."
I think we have a young man, Snowden, who sees himself as a whistleblower, a man standing up for the truth. But it's the truth as he sees it. I'm glad he released that court order to the media, so that there was something real and tangible that told us exactly how far our government has gone. I'm far less thrilled that when he left our country to go to Hong Kong, that he took with him other documentation that he seems prepared to share with the Chinese.
Yes, I completely believe that the United States hacks into the computers of other countries. And I completely believe that China hacks into the computers of other countries. And I completely believe that terrorists and criminals hack into computers. We live in a world where information is stored on computers, and information has value.
But given Snowden's remarks to the Chinese paper, it concerns me that he sees the United States as villain, and the rest of the world as victims. That's a troubling mindset for an American with access to confidential government information to have. The US government isn't an angel, but they are also not worse than the Chinese government, or the Israeli government, or the French government, or the North Korean government. Governments spy on each other, governments spy on banks, governments spy on scientists. Governments spy on their own citizens.
Perhaps I'm naive, and the American government is the biggest, baddest bully on the block. Even so, as a fellow American, I'd think about my fellow Americans, the American people, who are not evil, before giving American government secrets to other governments.
So I applaud some of his actions, and condemn others. Snowden is a real person, not a piece of fiction. He's capable of good and evil, he's capable of being brilliant and stupid at the same time, he's capable of being loyal to the United States and betraying the United States. Because he's following his own narrative. A narrative that the rest of the world is still trying to figure out.
No, you are not naïve. You are correct. The people who defend his decision to hand over the information to the Chinese are the naïve ones.
They threatened the big boys a ways back but they have been fighting back against it. Now they are using a different section, 502 I think it was, of the Patriot Act to get what they want. I read an article a week or so ago about it. May have been something other than the Patriot Act but when the "players" tried to fight back they just went around it. So yeah they know everything we buy, who we call, anything they want. It used to be encrypted but not anymore. This is what these folks are condoning and don't even know it and now think that some guy saying we hack China is the bad guy when our own government is doing this to us. Unbelievable is all I can say.
That's what sent me hunting and pecking on the web for more.
They said "direct" access. That nuance of words would not mean much to non tech folks.
But you have access to the backbone then you have all of Apples communications.
But they are encrypted with SSL.
Hard to crack a 1024 bit key and for each of the big players.
So the big players handed over their keys to the NSA.
That's the main theory/speculation among the techies.
But all want to see the FISA warrant/court order so that people know for sure what these providers turned over.
He could have done all that and much much worse but he hasn't done anything so far. He hasn't revealed anything important. Hong Kong is not China. In his mind, and rightly so, it was the only place in the world where he could book a flight without setting any alarms and to avoid extradition. If he had gone to Brazil, you would have complained too.
My guess is that he will be extradited, because contrary to what you think US and Hong Kong actually do have an agreement to hand over criminals. The Chinese might keep him until they have squeezed all useful the information out of him, but after that he will be sent back to US.
No, you are not naïve. You are correct. The people who defend his decision to hand over the information to the Chinese are the naïve ones.
Again, what physical documents were handed over? Do you have a list of them?
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Oh, I'm not really hiding, well, sorta hiding, but I'm not hiding
