Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-12-2013, 06:27 PM
 
775 posts, read 736,806 times
Reputation: 316

Advertisements

So let us assume, for a moment, that the following statement is actually true:

Caucasians average scores 5% greater than blacks on IQ tests

and that the only valid explanation for this discrepancy is simple, superior genetic intelligence (ie, that the difference lies in nature rather than nurture).

This is irrelevant. And it pisses me off when bigots, both of the overt and subtle manner, both of the simpleminded and faux-intellectual type, fail to recognize the obvious fallacy here, the fallacy of judging individuals by their group associations.

Arguing, for example, that black people should not be allowed to attend university because they're [again, allegedly] intellectual inferior is about as logically coherent as defending a university's choice to automatically admit all Massachusetts applicants and deny all Texan applicants because Massachusetts averages higher grades and standardized test scores. This would mean that a Texan student with a 4.0 GPA and a 2400 SAT score is less qualified than a Massachusetts resident of average intelligence and drive because the latter belongs to a group of overall greater value...how does this make sense?


Likewise, the moron who suggests that women shouldn’t be allowed to hold professions in the STEM fields because they are [allegedly] intellectually inferior insinuates that a female with a doctorate in chemistry from MIT should be glossed over in favor of said moron, who failed algebra. Guilt by association, aka merit by association.

Can this logic not be applied to:
  • Gays not being allowed to marry because they’d [allegedly] make worse parents than straights on average, even though two straight convicted murderers can tie the knot, while two homosexual, law abiding citizens with presidential medals of freedom cannot.
  • Women not being allowed to serve in the military because they’re physically weaker…not even one who competes in the MMA and lifts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-12-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,702,674 times
Reputation: 10005
Every single argument criticized in the OP is a straw man.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2013, 10:09 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,450,012 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
So let us assume, for a moment, that the following statement is actually true:

Caucasians average scores 5% greater than blacks on IQ tests

and that the only valid explanation for this discrepancy is simple, superior genetic intelligence (ie, that the difference lies in nature rather than nurture).

This is irrelevant. And it pisses me off when bigots, both of the overt and subtle manner, both of the simpleminded and faux-intellectual type, fail to recognize the obvious fallacy here, the fallacy of judging individuals by their group associations.

Arguing, for example, that black people should not be allowed to attend university because they're [again, allegedly] intellectual inferior is about as logically coherent as defending a university's choice to automatically admit all Massachusetts applicants and deny all Texan applicants because Massachusetts averages higher grades and standardized test scores. This would mean that a Texan student with a 4.0 GPA and a 2400 SAT score is less qualified than a Massachusetts resident of average intelligence and drive because the latter belongs to a group of overall greater value...how does this make sense?


Likewise, the moron who suggests that women shouldn’t be allowed to hold professions in the STEM fields because they are [allegedly] intellectually inferior insinuates that a female with a doctorate in chemistry from MIT should be glossed over in favor of said moron, who failed algebra. Guilt by association, aka merit by association.

Can this logic not be applied to:
  • Gays not being allowed to marry because they’d [allegedly] make worse parents than straights on average, even though two straight convicted murderers can tie the knot, while two homosexual, law abiding citizens with presidential medals of freedom cannot.
  • Women not being allowed to serve in the military because they’re physically weaker…not even one who competes in the MMA and lifts.
I do not know where you get your information, but there is no proof that white people are intellectually superior or that women are intellectually inferior. Also there is no proof that gays make worse parents, if anything it is the opposite, they make great parents who raise children that are more accepting of people who are different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2013, 10:25 PM
 
252 posts, read 262,873 times
Reputation: 152
This entire post is pure gibberish. This is not an attack but I would like to be direct. The people who believe the absurdities you are fighting are probably not going to bother with logic, facts, statistics, or anything that does not support prior beliefs. Not to say it is a wasted effort, but the hypothetical universe you constructed does nothing to further your argument/goal. I can help you refine your idea if you would like. PM me if you care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2013, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,702,674 times
Reputation: 10005
It looks like the OP may be testing out some new ideas and trying to fit his worldview around some new information. That's a very good thing. Hopefully, as he becomes more comfortable with his new reality, he will be able to shift from an "I can believe this and still hate the real bad guys!" attitude to a more "I can believe this and still be a good guy" way of thinking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2013, 10:56 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,842,859 times
Reputation: 1516
Op, I think you're making an argument that no one here would contest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2013, 01:33 PM
 
775 posts, read 736,806 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
I do not know where you get your information, but there is no proof that white people are intellectually superior or that women are intellectually inferior. Also there is no proof that gays make worse parents, if anything it is the opposite, they make great parents who raise children that are more accepting of people who are different.
My point is that it would be irrelevant even if the many claims made by, for example, anti-gay marriage advocates that homosexual couples make worse parents were true.

And lol @ the argument that I'm contesting a strawman. You do realize that the "<insert group here> is superior to <insert group here>" has been the primary argument used by every bigot group in human history, right? Even today, there are those who hold the "women should not hold professions because they aren't as good at working" viewpoint, or, more commonly, the "gays should not be allowed to adopt children because they're BAAADDD PARENTS!" viewpoint.

Beyond the intolerance and hate espoused by these views...they're highly illogical. These aren't intelligent people, regardless of how much specious, elaborate bull****ting your typical men's rights advocate can spew.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2013, 01:46 PM
 
1,614 posts, read 2,062,666 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
So let us assume, for a moment, that the following statement is actually true:

Caucasians average scores 5% greater than blacks on IQ tests

and that the only valid explanation for this discrepancy is simple, superior genetic intelligence (ie, that the difference lies in nature rather than nurture).

This is irrelevant. And it pisses me off when bigots, both of the overt and subtle manner, both of the simpleminded and faux-intellectual type, fail to recognize the obvious fallacy here, the fallacy of judging individuals by their group associations.

Arguing, for example, that black people should not be allowed to attend university because they're [again, allegedly] intellectual inferior is about as logically coherent as defending a university's choice to automatically admit all Massachusetts applicants and deny all Texan applicants because Massachusetts averages higher grades and standardized test scores. This would mean that a Texan student with a 4.0 GPA and a 2400 SAT score is less qualified than a Massachusetts resident of average intelligence and drive because the latter belongs to a group of overall greater value...how does this make sense?


Likewise, the moron who suggests that women shouldn’t be allowed to hold professions in the STEM fields because they are [allegedly] intellectually inferior insinuates that a female with a doctorate in chemistry from MIT should be glossed over in favor of said moron, who failed algebra. Guilt by association, aka merit by association.

Can this logic not be applied to:
  • Gays not being allowed to marry because they’d [allegedly] make worse parents than straights on average, even though two straight convicted murderers can tie the knot, while two homosexual, law abiding citizens with presidential medals of freedom cannot.
  • Women not being allowed to serve in the military because they’re physically weaker…not even one who competes in the MMA and lifts.
Who has actually said blacks should be banned from colleges? I mean, aside from the KKK...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2013, 01:51 PM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,770,037 times
Reputation: 893
I have opinions on all those issues that you wouldnt like. However you are assigning to me motivations for these opinions that are

Off the freakin wall.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2013, 01:55 PM
 
775 posts, read 736,806 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombocom View Post
Who has actually said blacks should be banned from colleges? I mean, aside from the KKK...
A large proportion of Americas before the turn of the 20th century?

Of course that is an extreme example by today's standards. But I still hear of people arguing that women should be paid less than men because they allegedly aren't as productive, and that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because they allegedly don't make good parents. The same logic is simply being adapted to whatever civil rights issue conservative want to oppose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top