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Old 06-14-2013, 09:05 AM
 
20,458 posts, read 12,378,099 times
Reputation: 10251

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
It certainly does for me. I will not tolerate anyone forcing me to believe anything that I find absurd cultural propoganda. Perry and the rest of his True Believers can take their "beliefs" and shove them where the sun don't shine.

My religion, if any, is my concern and no one elses.

and Freedom OF religion means exactly the above. You can believe anything you want, and you can even say what you believe without fear the government is going to shut you up.

It doesnt mean, you get to force (by the power of government) others to SHUT UP just because you dont agree with them.

Having people say "Merry Christmas" is not FORCING you to believe something you dont.

 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:11 AM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,450,045 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
With respect to religion, the Constitution guarantees "Congress [and due to the 14th Amendment, the States] shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

That means that government can't impose religion nor can it stop you from exercising your religion. That clearly means that Perry is wrong (big surprise there.) You can be free from government imposed religion.
That's not anywhere near what he meant and you know it.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,922 posts, read 2,778,042 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I'm glad that Rick Perry said this....and everyone else should be too. It's not often that modern day American Thumpers tip their hands as to what they REALLY want should they ever have the opportunity....

I've said it time and time again that without our Constitutional constraints on religious power and our relatively recent knowledge of science and philosophy (especially Darwin but not exclusively), Christianity would have its boot on our necks, and that boot would be heavy and cruel.

Perry's comments make that abundantly clear, and we all have a duty to remember how religion behaved before they were forced to have to tailor their beliefs to give them enough appeal to compete in the free market of ideas. Keep in mind how they browbeat populations all over the world when they had ALL the power, and how even the powerful were forced to get their blessings before acting.

So if anything, we should all thank Rick Perry for that reminder. I don't want to get complacent about the threat that religion poses to this country.
Very intuitive of you to discover Perry's massive take over plan for the US. Thank you for discovering this first step towards world domination!
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:15 AM
 
10,232 posts, read 6,315,362 times
Reputation: 11288
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordlover View Post
Did you read the law?

It protects people in school and other public places from being sued for displaying a 'christmas tree' or a menorah, wishing people 'Happy Hanukkah' etc.

"We are fortunate to live in a country where we have the freedom to exercise the religion of our choosing while also being free from having any religion imposed upon us," said Rep. Donna Howard (Democrat), herself a Unitarian Universalist.

It was also passed with bipartisian support, you know, BOTH sides agreed it was a worthwhile protection of your freedoms.
Had an experience a few years ago working at a public school. A cafeteria worker put up a Christmas tree (freedom of religion?) and put the names of all the teachers on balls on the tree (freedom of religion?).

Minor problem here with "freedom of religion" and that Christmas tree. All the teachers in the school were Christians and wanted their names on a Christian symbol? The Jewish teachers were outraged and said put our names on a Mennorah, not a Christian symbol. The staff who were other and no religion wanted their names on nothing. Should majority rule? Everybody becomes Christian at Christmas time, like it or not?

Compromise? The tree, and mennorah, were kept up, but the names taken off. Paper snowflakes with ALL the teachers names were hung from the ceiling. Much, much better idea. Totally non-religious and not forcing Non-Christians to be associated with a particular religion's symbol.

Happy HOLIDAYS!
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,700,795 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post

I wonder how the bill would stand up to a Muslim teacher putting out items of celebration for Ramadan or a Hindu teacher doing the same for Diwali.
Well, that will be the test won't it?
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:16 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,193,725 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
Many public schools ban that phrase.
They no longer have "chrismas celebrations" but winter solstice ones.
It's stupid. Why do Christians and Jews have to put their rights aside for a small minority?
They shouldn't have Christmas celebrations. If you want that, then send your kids to private school.

And what rights are being denied to Christians and Jews? None that I can see. If you want your children to celebrate your religious traditions in school, find a Christian or Jewish school to enroll them in.

Problem solved.

And which public schools ban students and faculty from saying Merry Christmas? Where? And how could anything so absurd even be enforced?

Stop whining. Geez.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,700,795 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Forcing and encountering are two different things. You running into someone in the park talking about their religion is an "encounter" and you are free to listen, ignore, move along, etc... Forcing is against your will, as in you have no choice.

The problem too often is that people will purposely confuse "force" with "encounter" to "force" another to their belief (ie demanding the encounter not be legal so that one can never "encounter") it.
So, where do school kids fall on this spectrum?

Is it an "encounter" or are they a captive audience?
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,700,795 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I am very proud of my governor. Some years ago I didn’t like the guy. In fact when he first ran for re-election I voted for the independent. But he has really grown into the job.

And on this issue Rick Perry is not only right, he is constitutionally exactly correct.

It never was the intent of the founders to hide faith or to force people of faith to skulk in the dark.

In fact the constitution PROTECTS a person’s ability to choose and to express their faith without fear. This modern notion that Americans need protection FROM faith is stupid and unconstitutional.

Kudos Rick Perry!
So you have no problem with your child(ren) being force fed someone else's beliefs then?

Interesting.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,279,876 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordlover View Post
Did you read the law?

It protects people in school and other public places from being sued for displaying a 'christmas tree' or a menorah, wishing people 'Happy Hanukkah' etc.

"We are fortunate to live in a country where we have the freedom to exercise the religion of our choosing while also being free from having any religion imposed upon us," said Rep. Donna Howard (Democrat), herself a Unitarian Universalist.

It was also passed with bipartisian support, you know, BOTH sides agreed it was a worthwhile protection of your freedoms.
It will be overturned because display in public, tax supported space is promotion of a "state" religion.
You cannot promote a religion.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,700,795 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
Don't believe in God? Don't go to church, turn the channel or turn off the radio.
Well, unfortunately the governor has now insured that children cannot not avoid being exposed to religion at school.

How about that?
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