Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-14-2013, 07:57 AM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,822,399 times
Reputation: 1135

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nald View Post
Check out how the Swedes did it - they PAID for leave. Then they limited the number of total days each parent can take... so you either waste your chance by working (which is almost as if you're working for free for many workers who have almost the same payment like the amount that is being paid to stay home) or you go and take your time with a child and your parental leave is paid by other workers.
Why did I say it's paid by other workers? Because someone HAS TO PAY FOR IT. Government just imposes their ideology.
Actually, government pays for it.

The company in question tradtionally hires a graduate to full the position, who starts at the bottom of the pay scale with no seniority. The amount saved can be considerable for a small company. And its how most people with degrees get their first job and the first serious employment on their CV, which disposes them favorably towards the arrangement.

Of course, the money used to pay for maternity leave comes from the tax payers. However, the entire point of Scandinavian maternity benefits -from the governments viewpoint- is that it makes it much easier for two-taxpayer families to have kids. That means more kids that grow up in an environment that imprints being a working, taxpaying person on them. And much fewer mothers quitting their jobs after having children. Hence more two-taxpayer families.

The entire investment pays off enormously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-14-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Gaston, South Carolina
15,713 posts, read 9,523,000 times
Reputation: 17617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Crabcakes View Post
At my last job, a co-worker took 2 weeks paternity leave after the birth of his daughter and when he got back, our boss gave him sh*t about it and constantly joked for weeks about how no real man should need to stay home for more than 3 days helping the wife.
Sounds like an issue for HR to deal with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 08:08 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,628,129 times
Reputation: 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
Actually, government pays for it.

The company in question tradtionally hires a graduate to full the position, who starts at the bottom of the pay scale with no seniority. The amount saved can be considerable for a small company. And its how most people with degrees get their first job and the first serious employment on their CV, which disposes them favorably towards the arrangement.

Of course, the money used to pay for maternity leave comes from the tax payers. However, the entire point of Scandinavian maternity benefits -from the governments viewpoint- is that it makes it much easier for two-taxpayer families to have kids. That means more kids that grow up in an environment that imprints being a working, taxpaying person on them. And much fewer mothers quitting their jobs after having children. Hence more two-taxpayer families.

The entire investment pays off enormously.

Governemt generally makes no real-value product, except via government-owned industry. To cover the medical costs, school costs, and eventually parental leave, government needs to tax your salary. This is why I said "someone else" pays for it. Including folks who have no children of their own. Including the guy who substitutes you.
System works as long as vast majority of folks will use it anyways. It wouldn't work if you'd have a certain group of folks who use it with a significant group of folks NOT using it. Imagine if Nordic states didn't have "social system" and woulds still implement laws that only working couples get costs covered and getting paid for staying home... while not making sure that almost everyone (or everyone's wife) can be employed to claim those benefits. You'd have lots of ANGRY people and tensions would be serious.
In fact, since it would generally affect specific demographic (and I'm assuming that most non-working folks would be immigrants) you'd have LOTS OF PROBLEMS and a serious societal rift. This is why it's crucial to make sure that employment is almost universal. This system would fail in a country like Bosnia where official unemployment is 46%. it would create new hatred and new hostilities. In fact - government copied system of Nordic states and you have parental leave for both parents... but it obviously won't work because obvious flaws that it only works for:
1. folks who are officially employed IN Bosnia (lots of folks work abroad, lots of folks work in gray area, etc)
2. folks who are generally employed in government structures (due to various irregularities and circumstances that most non-government workplaces will find their way to play around the law and decrease your pay and pay it out on different means and avoid MASSIVE taxes).
and so on.

By the way, I don't agree that mothers would quit their jobs if the parental leave was unpaid. In fact, they'd return as fast as possible and viable for the family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 08:18 AM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,822,399 times
Reputation: 1135
The Nordic countries have high employment rates because of policies like these. And if scemes like these weren't being run, there would be too few taxpayers per head of the population to provide their social services. Its whats known as a beneficial circle. What you are describing in Bosnia is a vicious circle, where the government cannot afford to make this kind of investment.

However, the fact that some are too poor to make an investment does not in any way mean that it is a poor investment.

As for the whole, government does not make a product fallacy, products exist because people chip in to form a government that enable the infrastucture and services that make products possible. Such as currency and property rights.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 08:19 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 1,628,129 times
Reputation: 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Sounds like an issue for HR to deal with.
What HR? I recall when I came to negotiate my pay. I've marched in with several years of experience, enough project in CV to get the senior post... in fact the same company OUTSOUCRED ME to do the job their workers wouldn't do. But when I came to U.S. I started with much lower pay than the other workers because... "and how about U.S. working experience?"
I made sure to repay them well because the contract was renewed annually. They had put me in a dead-end situation due to not having much options at the moment I came, I had to start making money. But a few months later I made sure to know more about other competing companies, made sure to know the area and made sure to start doing private projects just like I did back home. Lots of things have changed and I really made sure that they know they won't be going that way on me any more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:09 AM
 
6,497 posts, read 11,815,510 times
Reputation: 11124
Quote:
Originally Posted by nald View Post
What HR?
Pay attention. The poster referred to a boss harassing his employee for taking the leave.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 10:00 AM
 
36,529 posts, read 30,863,516 times
Reputation: 32796
Is the article suppose to generate sympathy for these men that don't want to take their leave or show their stupidity?

When I had mine all I got from my employer (state and federally funded) was a 2 week unpaid administrative leave and the 4 weeks of accumulated sick and vacation leave.

Perhaps this has somewhat opened some men's eyes regarding the adverse affects taking leave from ones job to care for children can have on some women and why there is temp. alimony to allow them to catch-up in the workforce.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 10:24 AM
 
17,869 posts, read 20,996,352 times
Reputation: 13949
I have a friend who gets 2 weeks of leave which is paid time, but he also sacrifices his vacation time to spend more time at home. He has to do this again sometime this year because he's having his 2nd child, so he can't take vacations right now because he has to save it all up and take it. I think that's kind of garbage, but that's how his business does it.

I wouldn't take leave if my job didn't pay for the time I was off since we'd probably need that money more than I need to stay home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Alaska
5,356 posts, read 18,544,358 times
Reputation: 4071
I know one couple where he took off two weeks when their son was born. She continued her time off for the two months. When she went back to work, he took off the remaining six weeks of his family leave. They thought it was best that one of them be with their son for as long as possible. So not all fathers are hesitant to take time off for their newborns. The rules here are that family leave apply to either sex, with specific mention that it includes fathers taking time off for newborns. If any supervisor harassed an employee about it, they'd be hearing from HR.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: NW Indiana
44,355 posts, read 20,063,008 times
Reputation: 115312
Thread moved from Relationships to P&OC.

.
__________________
My posts as a Moderator will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS And check this out: FAQ
Moderator of Canada (and sub-fora), Illinois (and sub-fora), Indiana (and sub-fora), Caregiving, Community Chat, Fashion & Beauty, Hair Care, Games/Trivia, History, Nature, Non-romantic Relationships, Psychology, Travel, Work & Employment, Writing.
___________________________
~ Life's a gift. Don't waste it. ~
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:40 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top