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Old 06-18-2013, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,726,771 times
Reputation: 9325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
If you did that, the most powerful people in Washignton would be the aides and lobbyists.
Why?
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:56 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,579,478 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
So, how's that working out?
It's not, but terms limits address the wrong problem. It doesn't work because of problems with the electorate and terms limits don't change that, they just make the same electorate pick more losers and you eventually get further toward the bottom of the barrel.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:59 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,579,478 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Why?
Because they typically remain in place (or somewhat) and the new person comes in without the knowledge of how things work. The newbie tends to lean on those that have been more of a constant. The other possibility is that all the staff gets replaced each term and spend time figuring out the job so they come in as ineffective, then govern for a while, then reach what would be some lame duck period where everyone knows they're on the way out soon.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,587,825 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Does CA have term limits?
Yes, it does.

If you want to diminish the power of incumbents, vote against them. Also, incumbents should not run for re-election unopposed.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,269,927 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
We do have term limits. It's called the vote. If the voter needs to be protected from voting then the game is over anyway.
^^^
Absolutely.
I don't know why people don't understand this.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,726,771 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
It's not, but terms limits address the wrong problem. It doesn't work because of problems with the electorate and terms limits don't change that, they just make the same electorate pick more losers and you eventually get further toward the bottom of the barrel.
We are already at the bottom of the barrel. And if they didn't have to spend all their time running for reelection, maybe they wouldn't get in bed with their cronies in business.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,726,771 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Because they typically remain in place (or somewhat) and the new person comes in without the knowledge of how things work. .

And that's a good thing because "the way things work" is part of the problem. It's what preserves Crony Capitalism.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:39 AM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,733,630 times
Reputation: 726
Term limits wouldn't matter if these rules were to apply.
1) Lower their pay to 10k per year.
2) Allow no more than 100k max to be spent on campaigns.
3) No PAC's.
4) no lobbyist allowed to approach any elected official.
5) Require them to actually live (permanent and only residence) in their districts/states.
6) no perks. No retirement, health care, and paid for junkets.

That would force elected officials to return to their districts to stay in front of the people who elect them. The job then would only become attractive to folks who really want to make a difference, and truly represent their districts wishes. All voting could be done via a secure VPN via the internet.

This would end the Corporatism of government. But the crooks and liars would never agree to this. Hence we need a 'reset'.
---------------------------------------

Disclaimer.
This post could have been intercepted and doctored by the NSA, and therefore may not represent the views of the sender.

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:07 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,859,083 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
And that's a good thing because "the way things work" is part of the problem. It's what preserves Crony Capitalism.
While you have a point, we don't always need to do things the way they have always been done, at the same time being a Representative or a Senator is a job. And like any job, there has to be a structure that allows people to be effective, to get things done.

Someone who's never served in Congress before has to learn the job. Just like someone newly hired at McDonald's has to learn the job. If every week the local McDonald's had an entire new crew, they'd be hard put to actually serve food to the public. So, they figure out how to fire up the grill, how to get the fryers going, how to hook up the CO2 lines for pop, how to work the cash registers, how to work the drive-thru, where the cleaning supplies are, but all these things take time, and by time they figure these things out, the customers have all given up, and the new employees still haven't figured out all the regulations that have to be met to stay open, the OSHA requirements, the Health Department requirements, they haven't figured out how to do payroll, how to do the bank deposit, how to order supplies, etc.

Congress is a job. It's job is to pass laws for the nation. How do you know what laws need to be drafted? How do you draft a law? How do you form committees to review prospective legislation? How do you give the President advice? How do you conduct a hearing? What's the process that a bill must go through? How do you schedule a debate on the floor? Who moderates the debate? Who moderates hearings? How do you launch an investigation of executive branch activities? Is there a process for determining if a proposed law is Constitutional? Who researches proposals for legislation, what the actual problem is, who is affected, what impact a law will have? If you're a Representative from New York City, how do you find out about fracking in South Dakota, and it's impact on the economy, it's impact on the environment, it's long-term and short-term effects, how the people in South Dakota feel about it.

New people have to learn how to do their jobs, and do those jobs effectively. While we may all be less than satisfied with the job our current Congress has been doing, we also need to realize that the media focus is on the controversies and disconnects in Congress. But Congress hasn't just twiddled its thumbs. The 112th Congress originated, debated, and passed hundreds of laws. The current Congress has worked on several bills that have become law, with many more in the works. From finance to baseball to fishing to drug-testing.

www.congress-summary.com - Laws Passed by the 113th Congress
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:34 AM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,579,478 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
We are already at the bottom of the barrel. And if they didn't have to spend all their time running for reelection, maybe they wouldn't get in bed with their cronies in business.
If you think we're at the bottom now, rule out these people and have the same electorate vote again - and again and again.
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