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Old 11-06-2007, 01:03 PM
 
394 posts, read 204,875 times
Reputation: 58

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embraer View Post
This oil and fuel situation is getting out of control. That is why I am amazed that we have not begun to seriously consider alternative energy.

I have followed the development of Brazil's sugar based ethanol for years and have even visited the plants where they are processed. To put it simply: It is the greatest thing to happen in recent history.

For those who don't know, Brazil is now self-sufficient in their energy sector. No more depending on the Middle-East or Venezuela for oil. Their fuel prices do not fluctuate everytime a suicide bomber goes off in the middle-east or Turkey deploys troops to the Iraqi border.

Furthermore, Sugar based ethanol is clean, chepaer, and has a MUCH higher octane rating than Premium fuel...I think its something like 110 octane ratin compared to Premium's which is in the high 90s. That means your car runs better and you get that added performance boost.

The Government right now is trying to push corn ethanol into the mainstream...but corn has already proved to be ineffective for a variety of reasons. Not the least is the fact that to produce corn ethanol the plants release just as much pollution into the air as an oil based fuel car does.

In Brazil the sugar factories run on clean fuel. Everything from the electricity to the gas in the transportation trucks is renewable, clean energy. It was amazing to see! We need to get on board Brazil's sugar ethanol quick as many other countries-like China-already have. The only reason we haven't is because midwest politicians are really trying their best to force corn ehtanol down our throats..so a high tarriff has been placed on Brazil's sugar ethanol. We need to be realistic here and do what is best for our country, and not what is best for a few people in the midwest. Remember also that every car in Brazil has flex-fuel engines giving consumers the option to fuel up on either ethanol or oil fuel. Needless to say the demand for the latter is very low.

If you ask me this is a no brainer. Who would you rather be dependent on for energy: The volatile Middle East or the Western, democratic country of Brazil? Personally I would much rather see my money go down there instead of making those middle east Sheiks ever more rich and powerful.

Something needs to be done about this crisis fast, and that is what this has become: a crisis. Between the war in Iraq, tensions with Iran, the world hating us, and an incompetent administration the last thing we need now is more problems. We need to stop letting those big oil company fat cats strong arm our nation for their own benefit.

Hopefully with a new and non-Republican administration things can get moving. I don't listen too much to what canidates say during the election process as they are liable to do and say anything to get electe ( Remember Kerry dressed in camoflauge goose hunting?)

I don't think Hilary or Obama are going to say too much about their plans during the campaign for fear of polarizing some voters, but given their stances on past issues I say we have a good chance at change should one of them get elected.

it isnt getting out of control, Bush is an Oil man, one could see he was going to do all he can to maxmize the **** out of his oil stocks once he got into power

Bush and the Republicans dont give a ****, they all have stock in oil everything is going right as planned
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Old 11-06-2007, 01:14 PM
 
Location: MSP
422 posts, read 1,069,435 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embraer View Post
This oil and fuel situation is getting out of control. That is why I am amazed that we have not begun to seriously consider alternative energy.

I have followed the development of Brazil's sugar based ethanol for years and have even visited the plants where they are processed. To put it simply: It is the greatest thing to happen in recent history.

For those who don't know, Brazil is now self-sufficient in their energy sector. No more depending on the Middle-East or Venezuela for oil. Their fuel prices do not fluctuate everytime a suicide bomber goes off in the middle-east or Turkey deploys troops to the Iraqi border.

Furthermore, Sugar based ethanol is clean, chepaer, and has a MUCH higher octane rating than Premium fuel...I think its something like 110 octane ratin compared to Premium's which is in the high 90s. That means your car runs better and you get that added performance boost.

The Government right now is trying to push corn ethanol into the mainstream...but corn has already proved to be ineffective for a variety of reasons. Not the least is the fact that to produce corn ethanol the plants release just as much pollution into the air as an oil based fuel car does.

In Brazil the sugar factories run on clean fuel. Everything from the electricity to the gas in the transportation trucks is renewable, clean energy. It was amazing to see! We need to get on board Brazil's sugar ethanol quick as many other countries-like China-already have. The only reason we haven't is because midwest politicians are really trying their best to force corn ehtanol down our throats..so a high tarriff has been placed on Brazil's sugar ethanol. We need to be realistic here and do what is best for our country, and not what is best for a few people in the midwest. Remember also that every car in Brazil has flex-fuel engines giving consumers the option to fuel up on either ethanol or oil fuel. Needless to say the demand for the latter is very low.

If you ask me this is a no brainer. Who would you rather be dependent on for energy: The volatile Middle East or the Western, democratic country of Brazil? Personally I would much rather see my money go down there instead of making those middle east Sheiks ever more rich and powerful.

Something needs to be done about this crisis fast, and that is what this has become: a crisis. Between the war in Iraq, tensions with Iran, the world hating us, and an incompetent administration the last thing we need now is more problems. We need to stop letting those big oil company fat cats strong arm our nation for their own benefit.

Hopefully with a new and non-Republican administration things can get moving. I don't listen too much to what canidates say during the election process as they are liable to do and say anything to get electe ( Remember Kerry dressed in camoflauge goose hunting?)

I don't think Hilary or Obama are going to say too much about their plans during the campaign for fear of polarizing some voters, but given their stances on past issues I say we have a good chance at change should one of them get elected.
Don't you need a warm, almost tropical climate to grow sugar cane (like much of Brazil has, warmer that the midwest United States anyway.? I dont see too many sugar plantations around Illinois and Iowa anyway. I also wonder how much rain forest they had to clear in order to grow all of these crops? I mean sugar is a great idea and it would be awsome if we could do it, but we in the U.S are different than Brazil.
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,432,881 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing12 View Post
it isnt getting out of control, Bush is an Oil man, one could see he was going to do all he can to maxmize the **** out of his oil stocks once he got into power

Bush and the Republicans dont give a ****, they all have stock in oil everything is going right as planned
And what about the democrat majority which promised to resolve the issue and yet have done nothing? Are they also involved in this conspiracy? What about the far left that refuses to allow us to search for new oil reserves in our own country? They keep us chained to foreign oil....
I am for alternative fuels 100%. But until they are developed oil is what we require. Pipe dreams about sugar cane etc are not filling the gas tanks. We have vast untapped reserves being ignored. The Gulf of Mexico is being tapped by Mexico and China as we speak.... WE need that oil to stay here not go to china like so many american jobs.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:56 PM
 
1,572 posts, read 3,680,391 times
Reputation: 512
The only alternative to oil depletion is for the US to simply use less oil. It isn't difficult to figure out, just incredibly inconvenient for many people. There is no technological easy fix to this problem.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA..Seattle Sucks: GO AWAY!
170 posts, read 788,263 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaysos View Post
Don't you need a warm, almost tropical climate to grow sugar cane (like much of Brazil has, warmer that the midwest United States anyway.? I dont see too many sugar plantations around Illinois and Iowa anyway. I also wonder how much rain forest they had to clear in order to grow all of these crops? I mean sugar is a great idea and it would be awsome if we could do it, but we in the U.S are different than Brazil.
The only place in the US that grows sugar is Hawaii, but that is in very small porportions to Brazil. We don't need to grow it ourselves. I was saying that importing ethanol from Brazil would not only be cheaper than middle-east petroleum but it would make our country safer because we wouldn't have to be so involved economically over there.

Sugar Cane is not grown in the Amazon, nor does it depend on a certain type of climate as much as a certain type of soil. Climate is a part of the equation, but the US does have that same climate in many parts. Brazil itself is only able to grow Sugar Cane in certain parts of its country as their climate varies almost as much as ours due to their continental size.

No, sugar plantations don't destruct any natrual environments except for some grass. We could import it cheaper, our cars would run longer and more efficient, the air would be much cleaner, and we could say goodbye to the middle-east sheiks and the big oil fat cats here at home.

Just today the Governor of Florida came out in support of Brazilian ethanol and is behind removing the trade tarriff...google news the story and you will see what I'm talking about...and he is a Republican!
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,660,055 times
Reputation: 1698
Default inspriation

Look guys the only way out of our current predicament with oil is do what we as Americans do best. That is think and develop our way out of this. I know alot of people in this country, think this country is full of stupid, fat and lazy people. While this partially true. I really think our complacency with life as it is because we as a nation are uninspired. This lack of inspiration comes from lack of leadership in our both in government and in industry. We need leadership, we need goals, we need dreams for our country once again. We need inspiration!
Well Maybe the eventual $5.00 gallon gas will force (inspirer) us as a our leaders, our industries, and our nation to go all out on a alternative energy sources. Remember the Chinese, and the Japans and some other countries can take and make our product better. Be we American are the guys that are really good at developing new idea, new techniques, and new product. So while right now we are in a slump. I think when it comes down to the wire we'll pull through like we usually do.


BTW Both government parties still suck. But maybe someone in 2012 we might actually get someone that leadership material.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,372 posts, read 27,521,808 times
Reputation: 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
I realized Bush was a mistake after I had already voted for him once. Did not vote for him a second time as his first 4 years proved he was not a true conservative. He pushed the boundaries of playing world police FAR worse than Clinton ever did, and that was one of the main reasons I voted for Bush. He lied, he lost my vote.
Clinton sent our troops to more foreign countries than Bush has.
And he didn't "lie." Many Democrats were making the exact same claims about Iraq. So were worldwide intelligence organizations (British intelligence, Chinese, Russian, U.N. intelligence, etc).
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Beijing or Illinois
40 posts, read 111,999 times
Reputation: 26
oil is going to run out pretty soon, let's get some coal then, when the coal run out, then we may just want to chop all the trees... lol...
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Beijing or Illinois
40 posts, read 111,999 times
Reputation: 26
Humans are too inefficient in their productions and all such, we may find a better way not to spent as much whilst producing the same effect. Too is we should stop to use oil products... Try new ways, the company who's going to succeed making new energy source is going to have their big break.. To the time when oil is not anymore affordable, and historical museum might just buy in a barrel of oil from (someone that still have some) for 10000 bucks and show it in the center of the hall telling everyone "This is a barrel of oil, our ancestors powered cars and machines using this"
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,274,872 times
Reputation: 24611
I have been reading a book titled "Dirt" about the soil that makes farming possible. We are, with our industrialized farming, making the same mistake of destroying the soil for the instant financial demands of our farming technology that destroys the fertility of the soil, despite artificial fertilizers, to maximize the short term yield. This has effectivly destroyed many historic civilizations from the Adriatic to Central America. Farming corn for ethanol is only the latest and most unsustainable example of this trend. It is a very foolish use of a priceless and, thus ignored, resource to grow fuel instead of food.

Soil conservation has effectively ceased on this, and most of the rest, of the world's, farmland. The results are very disturbing as they are reducing productive land faster than it is being created. The inevitable result will be, even without the help of drought, vastly increased food prices followed by malnutrition and, eventually, famine around the world. The ramifications of a worldwide famine are not pleasant but have to be considered. I have no doubt this will happen. I just wonder when.
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