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Old 06-20-2013, 12:45 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,730,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
If you borrow $60 trillion to buy oilfields that are valued at $90 trillion then you are sitting pretty. If you borrow $60 trillion to go on vacation then you messed up. The $60 trillion figure you posted includes housing, business, & education loans with car, personal credit, and boat loans.
The irresponsibly large size of our debt is a reflection of its poor quality. Houses, boats, personal credit -- loan for consumption and monopolies. Consumption loans made by large banks that are being subsidized by the American public. Our system is designed to reward those who recklessly bid up the prices of assets so that we can borrow more against those irrationally-priced assets, in an endless cycle.

this is a bad idea.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:46 PM
 
50,772 posts, read 36,474,703 times
Reputation: 76576
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Replacing Obamacare with Medicare works, when Congress allows Medicare to negotiate the price of prescription meds and medical equipment. It could be expanded in phases, over time.

Private insurers could continue to offer supplemental insurance for that which Medicare does not cover, no different than today.
As someone who works in a field that deals with Medicare, I couldn't agree more. There are so many stupid things going on it's not funny, at both the Federal and state level (for instance, a patient gets an expensive drug prescribed, the pharmacy fills it, and after it's delivered but before it's even opened, the patient dies....common sense would say return the drug to the pharmacy...but law dictates it be thrown away and Medicare billed for it).

Before this is going to happen though, we first need to get rid of lobbyists and special interests (it was the Pharmaceutical lobby that successfully got Bushy to put the non-compete clause in the Medicare part D bill)....and in order to do that, we need caps on campaign contributions and spending....and since the people who benefit from it are the only people who can change it, it's not going to happen, and it makes no difference the party in charge, they all take "bribes" under the guise of campaign contributions.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Why aren't we cracking down very very hard on any company employing a non-resident or even a temporary resident for a job that could be done by an American citizen, and would be if it were paying a living wage? Why aren't we incentivizing whistle-blowing regarding cases where non-residents are employed?
Too many make too much money employing undocumented workers. What might new constructed cost in Texas or Arizona or Nevada if it had to be performed entirely by U.S. citizens? People want the benefit of low cost labor but not the consequences.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:59 PM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,704,652 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post
I don't know if any one has made this suggestion, to create some national employment. Outlaw "self serve gas stations ".
India actually operated for many years (and perhaps still does) using such approaches to bolster full employment. It does put a damper on profits, because companies aren't able to leverage technological advances, and also because the automation industry itself is depressed.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
It can be shown with evolutionary proof re separation of a species by contrast that progress cannot happen with people making over 200 times other people. It won't work...you will have dogs barking at one another...thats what this is in my reductionist theory...a Kennel.
Yet, the U.S. prospered in spite of this.

Middle Class is generally an artificial state created by government.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post

Yes I know that people do contribute to state employment funds, through their taxes, but the cost to carry a person on benefits for a year is way more costly than teaching them how to be retrained for a job that will last.
In the U.S. only employers pay unemployment taxes.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Hey, if the president wants to pay great wages, I don't know that anyone would mind. He has all that money from book sales to throw around.
Obama is a financial pauper compared to presidents in modern history. And most wealth was not self made.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The emerging middle class in these countries make about $30-35K (USD) equivalent.
That's probably the bar of globalism.
Emerging is the key word. They represent a small fraction of the total population.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,472,986 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Emerging is the key word. They represent a small fraction of the total population.
Actually they are the ones targeted by "producers" to buy their goods.
And they are growing. These emerging countries are the new "engines of growth".
Why ? Because they have NO DEBT.

An emerging middle class - OECD Observer
This expansion continues. The size of the “global middle class” will increase from 1.8 billion in 2009 to 3.2 billion by 2020 and 4.9 billion by 2030. The bulk of this growth will come from Asia: by 2030 Asia will represent 66% of the global middle-class population and 59% of middle-class consumption, compared to 28% and 23%, respectively in 2009, according to the figure below.

Global Employment Trends 2013: Rise of middle-class jobs in the developing world could spur growth
New figures in the ILO’s Global Employment Trends 2013 show that 42 per cent of workers in developing countries - nearly 1.1 billion workers - are now “middle-class,” living with their families on more than US$4* per person per day. The rise is particularly marked in East Asia.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:41 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,261,651 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
The irresponsibly large size of our debt is a reflection of its poor quality. Houses, boats, personal credit -- loan for consumption and monopolies. Consumption loans made by large banks that are being subsidized by the American public. Our system is designed to reward those who recklessly bid up the prices of assets so that we can borrow more against those irrationally-priced assets, in an endless cycle.

this is a bad idea.
Who is to say that $60 trillion is irresponsibly large? Housing? The Brits and Aussies buy housing too, Aussie's actually spend alot more because the government controls the land. Cars? Why pay in cash when you can pay 2 or 3% interest. If you have a company then the interest pmt is deductible and you can depreciate the car too. Small business loans? We want entrepreneurs in the USA.

$60 trillion by itself is meaningless and doesn't even tell you half the story.
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