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Old 11-07-2007, 07:54 PM
 
2,967 posts, read 1,765,726 times
Reputation: 658

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Well there spunkmiester, you see I tend to look at statements of such gravity with a legal eye, where things like semantics actually do matter. I noted that you carefully picked one small portion out of that post and then assumed that I am some flaming liberal for merely stating the same position that law chose to take.

You misrepresented Clinton's statements, or some might say you flat out made stuff up and claimed he said it. I corrected YOUR error, I did not apologize for Bill Clinton.
Well TnHillTopper, for someone who claims to have such a keen legal eye( ) and pays much attention to semantics I am plum surprised you don't understand the meaning of the word apologist. And since you were so kind to correct my error, let me extend the same courtesy. The meaning of apologist is one who argues to defend or justify someone's position. And I strongly contend this is exactly what you did when you stated that Clinton did not technically have sex with Ms. Lewinsky. But enough of this. It seems as if you might be taking yourself a tad too seriously.

 
Old 11-07-2007, 07:56 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,688,731 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
For one thing, your claim was about Gitmo where neither of these prisoners were held. Secondly, there is a debate about whether waterboarding is or is not torture. Thirdly, it's also possible that Bush didn't know about these incidents. Therefore, considering these possibilities, it's likely Bush didn't lie at all.
Well I owe you an apology. You are right, Bush probably didn't know, then again that isn't all that surprising to anyone is it.

As to gitmo being the "place", well I think that is stretching things a bit as though it would make it all better if it were done in Switzerland or Idaho or something? Now as to that debate that is going on, well I imagine that some time back in our past there were folks standing around debating the pros and cons of owning a fine black man as a slave. Still does not make it right.

Now our former deputy attorney general under went this method of intimidation and when done he flatly claimed it was indeed torture as have many of our servicemen who have also volunteered to try this.

What is most sad is that we are even trying to some how justify this type of activity in order to save a couple of peoples back sides not because it is right or wrong. In addition, this like other severe methods of extracting information have repeatedly through history been deemed bunk as a manner of getting any reliable information since these people will tell you anything in order to stop it.

So here we are today, debating whether or not this is torture even though we have convicted people in the past for war crimes for using this against our own people. We have a government that publicly stated they have used it on at least three occasions, when it has already been accepted as being torture.

I make no apologies for nor will I accept any sympathies for any man, group or organization that tries to change the law or even the spirit of the law to protect their own hides at the expense of our national credibility, our sense of higher moral standards, or the treatment our own service people may have to endure because of this. It is wrong and they are guilty and they will probably skate free again.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,480,087 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunandsand View Post
Kerry was over there with real guns and ammo. Unlike Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, Hannity and all the other right wing cowards.

Those punks are not fit to lick Kerry's boots. Total, utter cowards and traitors every single one of them.
Once again someone makes a statement that would undermine the very real service of the National Guard. He flew a fighter plane for the air guard. For those that don't know the air guard is trained to a readiness of + or - 2 months readiness to settle into active duty. Not just anyone gets to fly for the airguard. Those that do must be good.
As for kerry's boots. I have served in time of war and I have a few decorations of my own. Am I good enough? The question I might ask is Kerry good enough to lick mine? The point is mute.... Kerry served and thats what matters in this regard.
What the swifties complained about was his slandering of the troops and what they felt were lies. They earned the right to question him on it, they were there.
For the record Bush not once bashed Kerry on his service record and in fact complimented him on it.
As for nonvets second guessing a vets military service? They didn't earn the right. They have the right to second guess his statements of crimes etc but never if he earned his metals. His crew says he did good enough for this vet.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,924,218 times
Reputation: 3840
I think that there is a slim line here between what a neo-fascist is, or neo-nazi, and what the administration purportedly engages itself in, and hence limits the liberties within this country: wire-tapping; potential acquiescance to torture; bending the rules within the government structure, through appointments and obfuscation of law; successful intimation of the Congress; the invasion of a foreign land, without cause; rigging an election; and probably more. If we followed the steps, slowly, of the 3rd Reich, we might see some startling similarities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Are not neo-nazi's emulating Hilter's "National Socialist" type structure? If this is the case then neo-nazi's wouldn't be for a globalization type agenda, they would be for strong nationalist ideology. While Bush has certainly favored corporate rights and privilege over that of personal liberties which is a fascist belief, but I am not sure if these two issues culminate into neo-nazism.

Also, Bush's stance on keeping our borders open to anyone who might want to enter, friend or foe would also suggest a more globalist and internationalist type agenda. Try down the hall in the neoconservative, new world order room.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:00 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,688,731 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1 View Post
Well TnHillTopper, for someone who claims to have such a keen legal eye( ) and pays much attention to semantics I am plum surprised you don't understand the meaning of the word apologist. And since you were so kind to correct my error, let me extend the same courtesy. The meaning of apologist is one who argues to defend or justify someone's position. And I strongly contend this is exactly what you did when you stated that Clinton did not technically have sex with Ms. Lewinsky. But enough of this. It seems as if you might be taking yourself a tad too seriously.
Serious, surely you jest, I actually got a chuckle out of that last post.

I defended the truth, if that makes me an apologist then so be it, I can live with that.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:09 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,688,731 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I think that there is a slim line here between what a neo-fascist is, or neo-nazi, and what the administration purportedly engages itself in, and hence limits the liberties within this country: wire-tapping; potential acquiescance to torture; bending the rules within the government structure, through appointments and obfuscation of law; successful intimation of the Congress; the invasion of a foreign land, without cause; rigging an election; and probably more. If we followed the steps, slowly, of the 3rd Reich, we might see some startling similarities.
Most certainly we would see similarities, in fact some some striking as to make the hair on your back of your neck stand up. As I also made a few notes back when I posted one of my pieces on the American Empire, I also noted the many similarities to that of the 16th century Spanish Empire, the former Soviet empire (latter empire), and that of Rome.

Outside of these, we are cutting new soil to plant upon and what we are doing in this country today is something new fashioned from pieces of things old. We are all now using terms like neo-fascist, neo-nazi, neo-conservative, neo-liberal as these are old things new again, yet a little bit different. ( I love the morphing of language as much as interconnectivity)

Ultimately what we have here is a simple grab for power by one branch of our government and the invertebrate use of just powers by another. It is a time of crisis but not entirely because of the Bush administration but because of an inept Congress and an apathetic constituency.

No wonder so many are flocking to Paul <~~ cheap plug.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,924,218 times
Reputation: 3840
Yes, a cheap plug.

But more seriously, regardless of vocabulary, or definition, the Executive Branch has surpassed my tolerance for acceptance, particularly on those issues or items I iterated, and probably others I didn't dredge up because it is getting late.

And, I agree a lame, or inept Congress, perhaps even spineless, and an apathetic constituency are both enablers and we know how harmful that is in a relationship.
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:23 PM
 
2,967 posts, read 1,765,726 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I tend to agree. Meaning that all these jibes at him are attacks on someone with a disability.
And the one before with that pesky sexual addiction. . .
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:25 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,688,731 times
Reputation: 3676
Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. - Frederick Douglass
 
Old 11-07-2007, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,924,218 times
Reputation: 3840
Mr. Douglass was a man of honour. His words should resonate with us all as they resonate then!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. - Frederick Douglass
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